What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

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What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby n8nagel » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:27 pm

Is there any formal reference for VA, or Loudoun County in particular?

The "city" boundaries on the map don't make a whole lot of sense to me, as some of the "cities" on the map simply aren't real cities/towns/CDPs (e.g. Victoria Station, Forest Ridge) and others which I know are either incorporated towns or CDPs (e.g. Sterling) aren't shown on the "City" layer. (I was surprised to learn that Dulles Town Center is actually a legitimate CDP when I looked it up, but that's neither here nor there...)

My understanding was that incorporated cities/towns and CDPs were what was imported into WME as the "City" layer/boundaries, but it doesn't seem like that has happened (or perhaps there have been significant changes since the info that was imported was generated.) Additionally, I'm having a hard time finding a good map that has that information, although maybe it's in the Loudoun County GIS and I just don't know where to look.

The reason that I bring this up is I'm starting to edit more outside of my immediate area, and with areas with which I'm less familiar I'm not inclined to input anything in the "City" field but leave it for others to do later, but at the same time that seems like a sloppy job, so I'm looking for references.

Edit: at least for Loudoun County, I found it (I think)

http://logis.loudoun.gov/weblogis/

then check "Planning" and under that check "Census 2010 - CDP"

I'm assuming then that I should be using those boundaries to determine the "City" designation of any given street, yes? (if you're actually looking at that, the area where there are all the CDPs is pretty much the area that I'd also feel comfortable editing. It appears that all the incorporated towns and cities (I don't think that there are any cities, as Leesburg is still technically a town, yes?) are shown by the magenta outlines, as well as IAD. Not sure what to do about the rest of the county...

Additionally, there isn't any way to edit the boundaries of the items on the "City" layer, is there?
Last edited by n8nagel on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby j2brown » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:42 pm

I'm the one who put a lot of those "non-cities" in in the Sterling area. While there are many different "formal" names that could be used (zip codes, USPS city names, and a handful of official county documentation, all overlapping and in conflict) I chose to name "cities" based on what a neighborhood is commonly referred to, even better if there is a sign or something out front.

Mike-1323 and I spent a lot of time going back and forth on this issue and finally came to an agreement, loosely based on naming things that would make sense to folks when they saw it in the client.

For example, when everything was either "Sterling" or unlabeled a traffic report of "Traffic on Route 7 in Sterling" was less than useful. However, a report of "Traffic on Route 7 in Countryside/Broad Run/Cascades/etc." is much more useful. When you're entering the neighborhood of Forest Ridge (or going by on Lincoln Ave or E Maple Ave there's a hugs sign saying "Forest Ridge", so it should make sense in context and perhaps even be helpful for navigation.

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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby n8nagel » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:48 pm

OK, that makes sense... is that on the forums? Clearly you guys are way ahead of me, and while I want to make stuff right, I also don't want to mess up any of your "deliberate deviations" that you've already discussed in the attempt.

And it looks like Cascades and Countryside at least are legit CDPs according to the map.
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby russblau » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:28 pm

Just as an aside, I think the base map used the 2000 Census CDP definitions, and there were some changes for 2010. For example (based on Fairfax County, which I am more familiar with), Burke Centre was split off from Burke in 2010, but the Waze map still has them both as a single "city".
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby mysticcobra » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:38 pm

That census map is a nice find. It appears that Broad Run Farms is not labeled on there. Are you guys seeing the same thing?
Did you decide to go with this convention for cities?
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby j2brown » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:48 pm

I don't know if any convention was agreed upon, but there haven't been any objections to what I posted on 05 Sept, and nobody's made any significant changes in the WME that I can see. Silence doesn't equal consent, but that appears to we where we are at the moment.

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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby n8nagel » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:00 pm

Bringing this back up because NE Loudoun is still a little messy in some areas... I started cleaning stuff up, apparently stuck my foot in it and messed up some stuff that was done intentionally north of Sterling (whoops) so subsequently concentrated on the "newer" areas west of the airport, e.g. Ashburn, Arcola, Broadlands, Brambleton, etc. Most of that I think I've got so that all the city names of the streets match the CDP boundaries on Loudoun County GIS.

I'm now looking up north of 7, and I see that Lansdowne is real messy. Should I fix that too to match the LC GIS boundary, or are there other conventions that should be followed in that area (existing neighborhoods with locally understood names, etc.)

Sidebar question - I see now that there's a lot of unlock requests in this forum unlike last time I visited; is it more appropriate now to post them here than in US General, where I've been posting mine?

thanks!
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby j2brown » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:20 pm

I'd be careful blindly using the CDP boundaries. While they're technically correct, our goal is still to present the end user with accurate navigation. From looking at the data I'd say that the CDP is a good place to start, but then compare that to the Subdivisions (under LandRecords, but way too detailed to be useful in Waze) and get a sense for where the CDP extends "too far" from what is commonly thought of as the labeled area. The Zip Code layer may offer some insight as well. At the end of the day it will be a judgement call for what the right balance between technically accurate and what makes the most sense for the end user population.

For what it's worth, Lansdowne appears pretty reasonable in the CDP to me. Perhaps an Ashburn/Leesburg area resident can weigh in, though, as my intimate knowledge of the area stops around Broad Run.

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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby n8nagel » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:36 pm

Understood, and I'm less confident in that area myself... however it appears that a big chunk of what appears to be Lansdowne is currently marked Leesburg, and of course I'm saying to myself "now I *know* that isn't right!" (possibly done because Lansdowne uses Leesburg as the post office name? Just guessing, I don't know for sure.)

I'll hold off messing with it and give others a chance to chime in before I start ripping it up... I've been on a kick to fix exit ramp names lately as I'm one of those people who really relies on the audio as much as looking at the map...
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Re: What to put in "city" field, and how to determine?

Postby j2brown » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:41 pm

Similar to how Broad Run divides "Sterling" from "Ashburn" I'd suggest that Goose Creek divides "Leesburg (River Creek?)" from "Lansdowne".
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