Learning?

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Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:18 am

CBenson wrote:I am also under the impression that there is distance from the ends of the route beyond which primary streets are also not considered.


I missed this earlier. I wasn't aware of this.

But realistically, where could you possibly be that you're more than a few miles from a road that could be classified as a Minor Highway (let's say a non-federal highway with speed of 45+).

Maybe we should set up a grid in the desert somewhere to simulate a 30 mile wide suburb and experiment with the street types to see how livemap routes things.
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Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:44 pm

We have a number of primary streets with residential driveways. You're going to find this in suburbia where every street has residential driveways.

If you have a large area that has nothing but regular streets and you need to navigate through it, the paths of least resistance (widest street, more than one lane, highest speed limits, fewest stop signs) are going to be your Primary Streets. That's where you want Waze to route the thru-traffic.

And as Sketch said, they might have a 30 MPH speed limit or even 25 (can't think of any like that ATM), where every other street is 20 MPH.
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Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:36 pm

I've been setting divided streets with 35 MPH speed limit or higher as a Primary Street.

Here, most of the major streets were set as Minor Highways, and everything else was a regular Street.

There has to be a good balance in order for routing that avoids regular Streets, and also for the Avoid Highways option if that is ever fixed.
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Re: Learning?

Postby harling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:13 pm

yrrabsille wrote:The fact that it prefers a "street" last explains the problem. About half way through my commute I get off the highway and head to the streets. And it's not because of traffic, it's just a quicker way. It's likely that Waze will never use my route then.

For routes longer than a threshold value (10Km IIRC, or was it 10mi?), the routing server does attach a penalty to Streets. One workaround--which I recommend only if it makes sense to do so on the map--is to reclassify the streets in question (or as many as can be justified) to Primary Streets, which do not have that penalty.
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Re: Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Waze had stated that the last tile update process (apx. 1 week ago) didn't complete. So likely they aborted it since it was causing problems and some of those problems are 'live' in the Application.

As I understand it, the date on LiveMap is when the last tile building process completed. But since we know another tile update process was attempted and problems have been spotted, we can assume that some tiles have been updated since Dec 11.

Hopefully they can get the process to complete this weekend to fix up this mess.
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Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:47 am

Check out status.waze.com. There are issues with the display layer of the map editor. Per comments on the recent status post from Dror, no previous edits are lost. They are working to resolve this issue.
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Re: Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:59 pm

RallyChris wrote:I've been told by Dror to ignore the speed numbers in old cartouche, that navigation isn't using those at all. He didn't actually state it, but I inferred that he also was trying to say that they may not be accurate, since they aren't used, they may not being updated (correctly?)


If they are not longer using this data or if it is not accurate, it should be removed ;)

Although I have seen at least one case where I was personally having routing issues, saw very low speed data such as this on the segment in question, re-did the segment, and the routing issue was resolved when the map updated.

Although I do agree (and posted above) that likely this data is not reflective of what is being used for the routing since Waze is supposedly using time of day data for routing (although lots of questions on how this actually works, how many data points are there, etc.).
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Re: Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:05 pm

A brief look at is seems that the road directionality is correct as well as turn restrictions along Worcester St to the East. I do see several segments with very low road speed info, in one direction in Cartouche_old. This may or may not be relevant since Waze supposedly uses time of day speed data that we don't have access to as map editors.

Possible workarounds:

* Keep driving the way you want to go whether Waze routes you that way or not. Unfortunately if you do this on your own, you may route yourself into a traffic jam that Waze is trying to avoid :)

* An editor could try re-doing some/all of the segments with very low speed data. Generally this is somewhat of a last resort measure.

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22389049

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22419474

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22419474

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22455081

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22434644
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Re: Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:22 pm

xjdeng wrote:I think there needs to be a feature to turn off the "bias" against "streets" (when traffic is very heavy and you want Waze to search for backroads.)


Likely most other GPS solutions do something similar. If these types of roads were considered for every route (especially long routes) there were be a huge, huge number of routing possibilities. Since Waze routing is essentially network based and we expect a route to be returned quickly - it may not be feasible for Waze to be assessing routes based on lower quality roads - especially on longer trips.

Surely this is all relevant as to why Waze used to limit routes to 200 miles and now limits to 1000 miles.

In using Waze, I have noticed that longer routes (a couple of apx. 300 miles) take a long time to return a route and/or time out more frequently. So Waze is already handicapped with long routes, even with the streets being mostly filtered out of the route calculation.

We don't necessarily know exactly how Waze is determining when to re-route based on traffic now. We suspect the time saving must be at least 4 to 5 minutes. Maybe they do have some additional consideration for streets in the local vicinity when traffic is very heavy and there are no reasonable highway alternatives? (well there are - it's off a ramp and back on! :twisted: )
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Re: Learning?

Postby gerben » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:29 pm

If that's still too complicated, then maybe we can steal the idea from my old Tom-Tom GPS that has no internet connectivity: add a button called "avoid roadblock" which allows you to avoid the current road for a specified distance (can specify 1/4 mile, 0.5 mile, 1 mile, 3 mile, etc) and finds the best route possible with the exception of the current road.


I used that one a lot when I still used TT, and I have wanted to use this in Waze several times...
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