Learning?

Moderators: Unholy, bextein

Re: Learning?

Postby dcsohl » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:39 pm

Hmm, interesting find on those segments. But the speed data is a bit confusing to me... It seems to me that when you see a segment that says "48/3 mph" that traffic is moving one way at 48 mph and the other way at 3 mph... but I don't know how to tell which direction is which. So I'm going to guess based on my knowledge of the area.

On your first two (well, three, since your second and third segment are the same one ;) ) segments, there is a traffic light at the intersection of Temple which can cause some delays. The low speeds are probably traffic heading towards the light. Likewise on your fourth segment, there's a light at Country Club Ln.

But your fifth segment... wow, that's a strange one. 3 mph in one direction... probably eastbound given the behaviour. The Country Club Ln light doesn't usually back up that far (though it does, sometimes), and the segments to the west of that segment have fine numbers, including the highway ramps.
dcsohl
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:06 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Learning?

Postby gettingthere » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:05 pm

A brief look at is seems that the road directionality is correct as well as turn restrictions along Worcester St to the East. I do see several segments with very low road speed info, in one direction in Cartouche_old. This may or may not be relevant since Waze supposedly uses time of day speed data that we don't have access to as map editors.

Possible workarounds:

* Keep driving the way you want to go whether Waze routes you that way or not. Unfortunately if you do this on your own, you may route yourself into a traffic jam that Waze is trying to avoid :)

* An editor could try re-doing some/all of the segments with very low speed data. Generally this is somewhat of a last resort measure.

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22389049

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22419474

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22419474

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22455081

https://www.waze.com/cartouche_old/?zoo ... 1=22434644
gettingthere
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6088
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:30 am
Location: Southern California, USA
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: Learning?

Postby dcsohl » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:15 pm

I'm having a similar issue as the OP here, in that Waze is not learning my route home. Oddly, Waze has learned my route to work in the morning; my preferred route shows up as an alternate route in Waze. I'm able to select it and use it to get to work in the morning.

But coming home in the evening, Waze has never presented me with my preferred route, which is simply the morning route backwards.

Here's an illustration... my route home from work, giving only one option: https://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=12&l ... g=61633318 (NB: I am finding in Firefox, loading up that map URL, that it wants to show me the whole world and I have to zoom all the way in to see the route. If you have to do this, know that this is all happening about 15 miles west of Boston, MA.) And my route to work, showing both options: https://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=12&l ... g=61611535

You can see, on the map, that a major road, State Route 9, runs a straight line from point A to point B. The Interstate route adds over two miles to the route and is, on average, roughly the same time. Sometimes it's faster, and sometimes Route 9 is faster. But Waze, going eastbound in the evenings, won't even consider Route 9, not even as an alternative route, until after I drive past the on-ramps to the Interstate. Then it recalculates to use Route 9 the whole way, and often 9 is faster. (Side note: When I drive past the first ramp, Waze recalculates to tell me to take an illegal left turn onto the other ramp, and doesn't consider Route 9 until after I drive past both ramps.)

So why is Waze learning the Route 9 way westbound, but not eastbound?
dcsohl
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:06 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Learning?

Postby gerben » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:29 pm

If that's still too complicated, then maybe we can steal the idea from my old Tom-Tom GPS that has no internet connectivity: add a button called "avoid roadblock" which allows you to avoid the current road for a specified distance (can specify 1/4 mile, 0.5 mile, 1 mile, 3 mile, etc) and finds the best route possible with the exception of the current road.


I used that one a lot when I still used TT, and I have wanted to use this in Waze several times...
gerben
 
Posts: 4783
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:42 pm
Location: Almelo
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 196 times

Re: Learning?

Postby xjdeng » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:19 am

gettingthere wrote:
xjdeng wrote:I think there needs to be a feature to turn off the "bias" against "streets" (when traffic is very heavy and you want Waze to search for backroads.)


Likely most other GPS solutions do something similar. If these types of roads were considered for every route (especially long routes) there were be a huge, huge number of routing possibilities. Since Waze routing is essentially network based and we expect a route to be returned quickly - it may not be feasible for Waze to be assessing routes based on lower quality roads - especially on longer trips.

Surely this is all relevant as to why Waze used to limit routes to 200 miles and now limits to 1000 miles.

In using Waze, I have noticed that longer routes (a couple of apx. 300 miles) take a long time to return a route and/or time out more frequently. So Waze is already handicapped with long routes, even with the streets being mostly filtered out of the route calculation.

We don't necessarily know exactly how Waze is determining when to re-route based on traffic now. We suspect the time saving must be at least 4 to 5 minutes. Maybe they do have some additional consideration for streets in the local vicinity when traffic is very heavy and there are no reasonable highway alternatives? (well there are - it's off a ramp and back on! :twisted: )


I don't think blindly including backroads in every routing calculation would be a smart move. However, there are certain situations where backroads may provide a legitimately faster alternative when traffic on the main freeway is very heavy. Maybe only enable searching backroads if the main freeway trunk is completely jammed (say < 10 MPH avg speed otherwise the backroads with a speed limit of 20-30 mph and frequent intersections will definitely be faster.)

If that's still too complicated, then maybe we can steal the idea from my old Tom-Tom GPS that has no internet connectivity: add a button called "avoid roadblock" which allows you to avoid the current road for a specified distance (can specify 1/4 mile, 0.5 mile, 1 mile, 3 mile, etc) and finds the best route possible with the exception of the current road.
xjdeng
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:34 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Learning?

Postby sketch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:43 pm

Yeah, I did that two years ago. Back when it was a pretty good bet that Waze wouldn't be able to get you anywhere.

The idea was that it would be nice to have some sort of differentiation between big thoroughfares like Claiborne Ave and Causeway Blvd and smaller main roads like Jackson Ave and Magazine St. At the time, no one knew what the implications of this would be.
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6099
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1557 times
Been thanked: 2104 times

Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:38 am

sketch wrote:Haha, so perhaps there is indeed an advantage to my "overuse" of the Minor Highway road type, then?


You're the one doing that? I thought those came off the base maps. I've converted a lot of them into Primary Streets but purposely left some, just because I thought it was a bad idea to get rid of all of them.

I still question whether Canal Street should be a Minor Highway. I wouldn't want to route anyone there who wasn't coming from close by. It's definitely not a quick way to get anywhere.

The rule I've been following is to use Minor Highway for a prominent State Hwy...minimum speed limit 45...preferably streets with "Hwy" as the suffix (Behrman Hwy, Jefferson Hwy, etc.) The inner-city stretches of US Hwy 90 probably work better as Minor Hwy rather than Major Hwy.
jasonh300
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:26 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA, USA
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 986 times

Re: Learning?

Postby sketch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:04 am

Haha, so perhaps there is indeed an advantage to my "overuse" of the Minor Highway road type, then?
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6099
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1557 times
Been thanked: 2104 times

Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:18 am

CBenson wrote:I am also under the impression that there is distance from the ends of the route beyond which primary streets are also not considered.


I missed this earlier. I wasn't aware of this.

But realistically, where could you possibly be that you're more than a few miles from a road that could be classified as a Minor Highway (let's say a non-federal highway with speed of 45+).

Maybe we should set up a grid in the desert somewhere to simulate a 30 mile wide suburb and experiment with the street types to see how livemap routes things.
jasonh300
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:26 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA, USA
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 986 times

Re: Learning?

Postby bgodette » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:54 am

This is the modern cookie-cutter suburb. Have to drive miles to get to a grocery store or gas station, 15+ to get to any actual commercial area with anything more than service industry jobs. In any case it's obvious, without even zooming in, what the Primary streets would be.

Small cities aren't immune either.
New Jersey and Florida are infected too.
bgodette
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 3436
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 538 times

PreviousNext

Return to Navigation & Routing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher