Learning?

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Re: Learning?

Postby sketch » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:05 pm

jasonh300 wrote:We have a number of primary streets with residential driveways. You're going to find this in suburbia where every street has residential driveways.

If you have a large area that has nothing but regular streets and you need to navigate through it, the paths of least resistance (widest street, more than one lane, highest speed limits, fewest stop signs) are going to be your Primary Streets. That's where you want Waze to route the thru-traffic.

And as Sketch said, they might have a 30 MPH speed limit or even 25 (can't think of any like that ATM), where every other street is 20 MPH.

This exactly. The first and last thoroughfares I take every day are packed with houses with driveways.

Jason, Jackson Ave between St Charles and Tchoupitoulas (at least) is a good example of a street with a 25 mph speed limit that should absolutely be a Primary Street. All the strictly residential streets in New Orleans proper have 25 mph speed limits, too, but Jackson is the wider one with signaled intersections and no stop signs. A number of primary streets in New Orleans are like this, since the blanket law is that all undivided streets have a 25 mph speed limit.

There's no easy way to make a rule, but it should be fairly intuitive.
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Re: Learning?

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:09 pm

jasonh300 wrote:If you have a large area that has nothing but regular streets and you need to navigate through it, the paths of least resistance (widest street, more than one lane, highest speed limits, fewest stop signs) are going to be your Primary Streets. That's where you want Waze to route the thru-traffic.


Quoted for truth :)

Primary street should be decided based on function, not physical characteristics. A primary street can be a rutted dirt wagon trail if the other "streets" in the area are foot paths :)
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Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:44 pm

We have a number of primary streets with residential driveways. You're going to find this in suburbia where every street has residential driveways.

If you have a large area that has nothing but regular streets and you need to navigate through it, the paths of least resistance (widest street, more than one lane, highest speed limits, fewest stop signs) are going to be your Primary Streets. That's where you want Waze to route the thru-traffic.

And as Sketch said, they might have a 30 MPH speed limit or even 25 (can't think of any like that ATM), where every other street is 20 MPH.
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Re: Learning?

Postby bgodette » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:32 pm

My primary rule for Primary Street is: do residences have their driveways on it? If there isn't, it's the "primary" street from that area to larger and larger arteries until you reach freeways/highways. This works surprisingly well for urban areas. For rural I'd go with marking whatever roads intersect the nearby towns/cities as Primary if they're not already marked as Major/Minor highways due to being USH or SH.
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Re: Learning?

Postby sketch » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:55 pm

35 is absolutely classifiable as a Primary Street. I have Primary Streets with speed limits of 30 or, occasionally, 25.
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Re: Learning?

Postby yrrabsille » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:54 pm

One of the longer back-roads on my route is a road that is heavily travelled by locals because it avoids the hustle of the city. The speed limit is 35, but I think it could be justified to call it a Primary Street, especially if it will make the difference in finding efficient routes for others as well, and I think it will. I'm going to change it and see what happens. Now for the map to update to the client again...

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Re: Learning?

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:36 pm

I've been setting divided streets with 35 MPH speed limit or higher as a Primary Street.

Here, most of the major streets were set as Minor Highways, and everything else was a regular Street.

There has to be a good balance in order for routing that avoids regular Streets, and also for the Avoid Highways option if that is ever fixed.
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Re: Learning?

Postby CBenson » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:31 pm

My understanding is not so much that waze attaches a penalty to streets for long routes, but that street are not looked at except for the 5 km at the ends of the route when assembling a route. I am also under the impression that there is distance from the ends of the route beyond which primary streets are also not considered.
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Re: Learning?

Postby harling » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:13 pm

yrrabsille wrote:The fact that it prefers a "street" last explains the problem. About half way through my commute I get off the highway and head to the streets. And it's not because of traffic, it's just a quicker way. It's likely that Waze will never use my route then.

For routes longer than a threshold value (10Km IIRC, or was it 10mi?), the routing server does attach a penalty to Streets. One workaround--which I recommend only if it makes sense to do so on the map--is to reclassify the streets in question (or as many as can be justified) to Primary Streets, which do not have that penalty.
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Re: Learning?

Postby yrrabsille » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:46 pm

The fact that it prefers a "street" last explains the problem. About half way through my commute I get off the highway and head to the streets. And it's not because of traffic, it's just a quicker way. It's likely that Waze will never use my route then. Using the "Avoid Highways" feature won't work at all because the first half of my trip is highway. One thing that would be a HUGE help would be an "Avoid Toll Roads" feature. It still wouldn't choose my route because I actually get off 4 exits before the toll and the toll IS part of the reason I do it. The Waze route brings me to the next exit after the toll. Is there any hope for getting that feature sometime soon? I know that this is primarily Northeast U.S. issue, but there's a lot of us up here. :-)
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