Problem routing to location from various starting points

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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby golenny » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:55 am

WeeeZer14 wrote:From the meetup, I only remember that "primary roads" were Freeway, Major Hwy, and Minor Hwy (and maybe ramps?). That is when we learned that Primary Street wasn't getting any preference over Street.


This is really strange to me, because there are 3 streets around me that I've changed from regular to primary street over time, and whenever I changed one, it started recommending it as an alternate route, where it never routed me that way before. Happened every time I 'upgraded' a street.
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm

More from Dror, after I asked if there was a map problem or if this was a routing server parameter change:
Basically, the parameter says to ignore an alternative due to a couple of reasons. Everything is based on theresholds, and in this case, the threshold for driving on freeway vs. driving on lower-speed roads caused the issue, so we changed it and made sure it will not fail the whole route.

So it wasn't road type so much as road speed which caused the routes to be "pruned" or "failed."
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby bgodette » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:48 pm

WeeeZer14 wrote:From the meetup, I only remember that "primary roads" were Freeway, Major Hwy, and Minor Hwy (and maybe ramps?). That is when we learned that Primary Street wasn't getting any preference over Street.

I'm pretty sure ramps are considered primary roads, else we wouldn't have had the ramp-to-ramp traffic bypassing issue.
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby WeeeZer14 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:18 pm

I'm one of the debaters on that topic and sometimes I flip flop in my own head!

But I thought we were told at some point that the only difference between Major and Minor was display on the map? Or am I remembering that wrong?

Of course they could have decided to change that at some point.

From the meetup, I only remember that "primary roads" were Freeway, Major Hwy, and Minor Hwy (and maybe ramps?). That is when we learned that Primary Street wasn't getting any preference over Street.
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:17 am

FrisbeeDog wrote:Agree on the minor/major highway designation based on use rather than state/US. It just needs to be clearly laid out in the wiki what delineates the two.

The dozen+ threads with everyone debating on how to do this shows how much differentiation of opinion the community has on this. :)
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby bgodette » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:59 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I heard back from Support today and they have fixed the problem with this routing. The reason for not being able to find a route, according to Dror, is interesting and now I need to get some help from the megamappers in terms of what you remember from the meetup about route pruning, road type preferences for route distance, etc. I haven't gotten that part in my recording, so I don't have notes about it yet.

Not much detail was given other than Primary Road wasn't one of the road types that were considered for the middle portion of long routes. Assuming we're typing all state highway/routes as Minor, then IMO Primary Road *should* be considered and valued as a minor highway.

As far as pruning goes, I would imagine that at some point a route that's following along a Minor will prune before a route following along Major which will prune before a route following Freeway. What those thresholds are is probable a business secret and we won't know more than Minor < Major < Freeway.

Maybe we need to rethink how we type Major and Minor again and go more for what the road looks like, functions as, and capacity instead of going by US vs State numbered.
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:54 pm

I heard back from Support today and they have fixed the problem with this routing. The reason for not being able to find a route, according to Dror, is interesting and now I need to get some help from the megamappers in terms of what you remember from the meetup about route pruning, road type preferences for route distance, etc. I haven't gotten that part in my recording, so I don't have notes about it yet.

Basically the issue was that the short route (going south and then West) is built of mainly Seconday highway, and since this goes for almost the entire route, waze tried to avoid it and find an alternative - however, the alternative (Which is currently displayed when you search for it) is a very long one and so it failed to find an alternative and this failed the entire search. We fixed it now.


(I also don't know what was "fixed": roads or routing server?)
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby bgodette » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:51 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:FYI, did you notice that the most updated layer on the US livemap is no longer the closest zoom level, but one higher than that?
Yes I noticed.
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:47 pm

You bring up good points, for sure. I don't understand the routing algorithms details, so you could be totally on point. When I get to these state routes in my progress through all of them (still doing US routes right now), I'll concentrate on them more.

FYI, did you notice that the most updated layer on the US livemap is no longer the closest zoom level, but one higher than that?
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Re: Problem routing to location from various starting points

Postby bgodette » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:42 pm

The more I think on the problem of long routes and Waze returning odd or no results, I come back to pruning. At some point the algorithm must prune the number of potential solutions as it attempts to get closer to the destination.

There's certainly a large number of rules to determine what to prune, but almost certainly one of them is the number of segments or junctions that have been traversed vs time and distance. This also explains some of it's strong preference to use Freeways as they tend to be the most well maintained at this point and usually have the fewest junctions per mile. This brings a strong argument to elimination of all extraneous junctions, and if possible, integrating city boundary junctions into the nearest intersection. There's possibly an argument for elimination of private roads that serve as access to a single residence off a Major/Minor Highway such as this.
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