HOV lane navigation

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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:20 pm

That lane is improperly set up then. Yes, please post the location/highway name, city, state, etc, so an editor can look into it. All HOV lanes are supposed to be set to avoid routing as there is no way for Waze to know better at this time.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 pm

MysticCobra wrote:I still say that waze should give users the option of taking these HOV roads as a separate possible route. Just add them as new roads. What exactly does making them parking lot roads do for routing purposes?

I, as a non HOV driver, should not be navigated onto an HOV lane. This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules. Mapping the HOV lanes as parking lot adds a significant enough penalty to make Waze not choose it
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:47 pm

I totally agree that HOV usage rate is both city and time-dependent. However, because we do not have the HOV-avoidance or HOV-use feature available, we should be a little more simplistic in our mapping until we have more complex options available. Now, Waze is commuter-centric, so one could correctly argue that in certain cities, HOV lane use should be open and not parking-lotted.

But if I am a visitor to that area on a business trip, commuting in the morning with all the locals, and am totally unfamiliar with the situation, I may decide to trust Waze in such a "mature area" and might get routed onto an HOV lane, recognize it too late and get fined. We all know that Waze alternate routing may re-route you for a distance away from the HOV, but if the HOV is mathematically superior, using it at a later entrance may still be part of all the alternate routes. (Recent forum discussion related to closed roadway had this exact thing happen.)

There's lots to weigh before determining that opening up HOV to general Waze routing is the better answer.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:43 pm

I understand the theory but if it is a parking lot road waze does not understand how to exit when you are in the HOV lane. You need to be able to get OFF the HOV as well as prevent getting on it. A turn restriction would better accomplish this goal.

Also with the parking lot road, how are you to know the HOV is an option if there is a serious accident on the main road? It's impossible. Anyone who lives in that area knows enough to avoid the HOV if it's closed-there's a gate in front of the lane, or if they can't use it-not enough people in the car. If you go another way, waze can handle the re-route. For these reasons I do not agree with making the ramp a parking lot road.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:07 pm

Had a thought-the 95 HOT lanes project will change these lanes to toll/HOV lanes. They will still be reversible, but as I stated previously, I don't think this is a practical problem. If you can't get on the road, it's obvious. Waze can handle the re-route if you take regular 95 instead of 95 HOV. If the lanes were changed to toll roads now (which they will be in the future anyway) then the user could choose to turn those routes on or off based on toll road settings. In fact, this would be a good feature for HOV's in general-treat them like toll roads within waze. If waze had a separate setting like toll roads for HOV's, the user could turn them on or off as routing options.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:05 am

So do you support changing them now or later?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:36 am

Addressing some of the above: (sorry I don't know how to quote, haven't really done forums like this for awhile).

1) I use 95 north and south every day from south of springfield to maryland. The HOV lanes have varying travel times and I often have to take a gamble as to whether or not the HOV lanes will be faster or the regular lanes. It would be nice to have waze make that decision for me. Today is a great example of the problem-there was a major accident on 95 south so I took a chance and took the HOV lane home (it was after 6 pm so they were open). Waze wanted me to take rt. 1 south instead. Route 1 has a lot of lights on it and is usually also congested so I decided against it. Luckily, my bet paid off and the HOV lanes were clear. There are two things to realize about the HOV lanes on 95 in particular:
a) Even though they are reversible, the exits to get on them are very far apart from the exits to get onto the regular 95. There are gates blocking cars from getting on the roads so if it is closed you can't physically get onto the road and go the wrong way...I've seen people try, it doesn't work. So, if waze tells you to take the HOV lanes, and the gate is closed, it will automatically reroute you because you will have to make a distinctly different turn. This is significant, because in other places where the roads are close together, waze doesn't necessarily know what road you're actually on: If waze says to take 495 thru across the woodrow wilson bridge and you take local instead, waze won't figure it out until you exit because the roads are so close together and there is not a significant turn to take one or the other.
b) HOV2/HOV3, etc. is clearly marked on the signs. It would be nice to get a warning from waze, as other gps systems are able to do, but if you drive in the area regularly you should know the law and be able to read the signs.

To point b above, I could see this being a problem with thru travelers, new residents or folks who just don't pay attention to details. That's exactly the reason I suggested making them toll roads. If a user is familiar/intelligent enough to figure out when the lanes can be used, just mark them toll roads and let the user decide if they want to take the risk. I realize there are other problems with this method, such as being routed onto a toll road unexpectedly when leaving the feature on to use it for HOV lanes. Long-term, there really should be an HOV lane designation. I don't think the differences between HOV3 vs HOV2 or HOT lanes are significant, as there are multiple signs on the road itself and the user should be able to determine if the roads can legally be used or not.

2) The speeds are significantly different on HOV lanes vs. regular at certain times of the day. This can make a big difference in travel time. To that end, the current system of having the entire road marked as a parking lot road works very well once the user has chosen to take the road (assuming waze recognizes you are on the road, which is not always the case depending on the severity of the turn onto it-see above). Once the user is on the road and waze recognizes this fact, waze can handle the resulting routing. The only problem is that the user assumes the risk of actually getting onto a slower road when he initially makes the decision to switch to the HOV lanes, as there is no estimated time on waze, he just has to assume the HOV lane will be faster. This mostly comes into play when there is an accident in the HOV lanes. On 95 and 495, this is detrimental, because of the jersey barriers-once you get into the lanes you cannot get out except at designated exits.

3) I66 inside the beltway is another beast entirely. I have no idea how this road works. My Garmin constantly wants me to take this road and I have to bail. This is one of the few roads that is also consistently monitored by police so a mistake can cost you.

4) Non-isolated HOV lanes are insignificant, such as most of I66 outside the beltway. This discussion also applies to parts of 270 north of the beltway, and likely other roads I am unaware of.

My $0.02, a little long winded. Now that the 495 HOT lanes are open they should be specifically addressed at a minimum.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:45 pm

I think part of the issue with 66 is that not only is it time sensitive, but it is a very different route than other ways to get into the city or wherever you're going. If someone unfamiliar with the area is routed onto 66 and plans to take the road until they actually get to the exit and then have to re-route, it can really screw up your day. During rush hour, you have to know you can't take that route when you're at least 10 miles away if you want any hope of making it where you're going on time. The time sensitive roads are a huge problem in general, but waze needs to address this. Another example of this: Clara Barton parkway (and many other roads) in DC is reversible. I have twice been routed to the Clara Barton parkway in the afternoon only to find I can't make the turn into the city and taken an extra hour to get to my destination because of it. Some of this should work itself out in the future, as the I95 lanes will become hot lanes in a few years:

http://www.vamegaprojects.com/about-meg ... hot-lanes/
http://www.vamegaprojects.com/tasks/sit ... arrows.pdf

I think there should be some agreement on how to handle these types of lanes. Probably not country-wide, but NOVA/DC/MD is pretty inclusive in terms of folks who use the roads so some consistency would be good. By the looks of things, I66 inside the beltway is inconsistent with 95, which is not quite the same as 270 either.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

What exactly does making them parking lot roads do for routing purposes?


Making them parking lot roads also allows a user who chooses to use them to get off. The 95 HOV lanes south of DC used to be normal roads but the exits were parking lot roads. That didn't work for this particular area. The reason is if a wazer chose to get in the HOV lanes waze did not route the user back off onto the appropriate exit, because the exit (which is reversible) was marked as a parking lot road, so waze didn't use it.

I, as a non HOV driver, should not be navigated onto an HOV lane. This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules. Mapping the HOV lanes as parking lot adds a significant enough penalty to make Waze not choose it


While I share your opinion that a non-HOV driver would not want to be routed onto the HOV lanes, the ideal situation would be that if you press "routes" in waze, you are given an HOV and a non-HOV route, which the user could choose from. Unfortunately this may not always happen, as the user is often given only 1 route even when 2 or more obviously exist. I think the current system for I95 and I270 works. I395 I'm not sure but it is likely similar. I66 inside the beltway is a problem though. If you can't take I66 you have to go all the way around the city instead of through it. That is a major route change. This is part of the reason I think this is really a regional issue not a national issue. Every region handles HOV lanes differently and drivers have to know how to navigate them.

Long term, it would be really nice to see waze implement time sensitive roads and turns, and a feature to let users turn HOV lanes on and off.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:40 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules.

I wonder if this actually true for wazers in some areas. If we take a poll and find that a majority of wazers in an area use the HOV lanes, do we change the policy for that are


Good point. With all due respect for other cities, each city presents unique challenges and this one seems to be a big problem for the DC area.

The discussion of I66 inside the beltway brings up another question-the reversible HOV lanes on I95 they are open to all drivers at certain parts of the day, leaving the non-HOV driver in a real pickle when they are open to all. Waze will not route onto these roads, unlike I66 which is apparently open for routing. Why the difference between I66 and I95 despite the similarities in structure?
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