HOV lane navigation

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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:05 pm

MysticCobra wrote:Waze should also notate (just like a toll road) with a little icon in the corner that this is an HOV road. Let the user use their brain (and read the signs) and decide which route they want. We know wazers are smarter than the average driver so this shouldn't be difficult, right? :)
Sure but there are two separate questions. 1) What should waze do to accommodate HOV lanes? 2) In the meantime, how should we map them with the tools that we currently have?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby mysticcobra » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:52 pm

CBenson wrote:Sure but there are two separate questions. 1) What should waze do to accommodate HOV lanes?

If you are asking my opinion, I think I answered both... add an asterisk or little footnote with a sentence warning the user whenever one of these HOV roads is chosen (or suggested) that they need to be aware of these rules.
CBenson wrote:2) In the meantime, how should we map them with the tools that we currently have?
I still say that waze should give users the option of taking these HOV roads as a separate possible route. Just add them as new roads. What exactly does making them parking lot roads do for routing purposes?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 pm

MysticCobra wrote:I still say that waze should give users the option of taking these HOV roads as a separate possible route. Just add them as new roads. What exactly does making them parking lot roads do for routing purposes?

I, as a non HOV driver, should not be navigated onto an HOV lane. This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules. Mapping the HOV lanes as parking lot adds a significant enough penalty to make Waze not choose it
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

What exactly does making them parking lot roads do for routing purposes?


Making them parking lot roads also allows a user who chooses to use them to get off. The 95 HOV lanes south of DC used to be normal roads but the exits were parking lot roads. That didn't work for this particular area. The reason is if a wazer chose to get in the HOV lanes waze did not route the user back off onto the appropriate exit, because the exit (which is reversible) was marked as a parking lot road, so waze didn't use it.

I, as a non HOV driver, should not be navigated onto an HOV lane. This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules. Mapping the HOV lanes as parking lot adds a significant enough penalty to make Waze not choose it


While I share your opinion that a non-HOV driver would not want to be routed onto the HOV lanes, the ideal situation would be that if you press "routes" in waze, you are given an HOV and a non-HOV route, which the user could choose from. Unfortunately this may not always happen, as the user is often given only 1 route even when 2 or more obviously exist. I think the current system for I95 and I270 works. I395 I'm not sure but it is likely similar. I66 inside the beltway is a problem though. If you can't take I66 you have to go all the way around the city instead of through it. That is a major route change. This is part of the reason I think this is really a regional issue not a national issue. Every region handles HOV lanes differently and drivers have to know how to navigate them.

Long term, it would be really nice to see waze implement time sensitive roads and turns, and a feature to let users turn HOV lanes on and off.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I, as a non HOV driver, should not be navigated onto an HOV lane.

I think the question becomes, why not.
First, if you are routed on the HOV lanes, you need only to ask for alternative routes and pick one that does not use the HOV lanes. Thus waze remains useful for non HOV drivers if the HOV lanes are routable. However, if they are not routable, but typically the best choice for HOV drivers, then waze provides very little benefit to the HOV driver.
Second, you are already routed on HOV lanes as a non HOV driver in the DC area. This is because I-66 into/out of Washington, DC is time restricted HOV only for the rushes. The only way to keep you from being routed on the HOV restricted I-66 is to make I-66 entirely non-routable, which hasn't been adopted as the proper course of action.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules.
I wonder if this actually true for wazers in some areas. If we take a poll and find that a majority of wazers in an area use the HOV lanes, do we change the policy for that area?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:40 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:This would typically be the majority of drivers, so currently, majority rules.

I wonder if this actually true for wazers in some areas. If we take a poll and find that a majority of wazers in an area use the HOV lanes, do we change the policy for that are


Good point. With all due respect for other cities, each city presents unique challenges and this one seems to be a big problem for the DC area.

The discussion of I66 inside the beltway brings up another question-the reversible HOV lanes on I95 they are open to all drivers at certain parts of the day, leaving the non-HOV driver in a real pickle when they are open to all. Waze will not route onto these roads, unlike I66 which is apparently open for routing. Why the difference between I66 and I95 despite the similarities in structure?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:47 pm

I totally agree that HOV usage rate is both city and time-dependent. However, because we do not have the HOV-avoidance or HOV-use feature available, we should be a little more simplistic in our mapping until we have more complex options available. Now, Waze is commuter-centric, so one could correctly argue that in certain cities, HOV lane use should be open and not parking-lotted.

But if I am a visitor to that area on a business trip, commuting in the morning with all the locals, and am totally unfamiliar with the situation, I may decide to trust Waze in such a "mature area" and might get routed onto an HOV lane, recognize it too late and get fined. We all know that Waze alternate routing may re-route you for a distance away from the HOV, but if the HOV is mathematically superior, using it at a later entrance may still be part of all the alternate routes. (Recent forum discussion related to closed roadway had this exact thing happen.)

There's lots to weigh before determining that opening up HOV to general Waze routing is the better answer.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:01 pm

I agree that there's lots to weigh. That's why I think this discussion is useful. I'm not advocating making the VA I-95 HOV lanes routeable. Not only would this cause non-HOV drivers to be routed on the HOV lanes, but they are reversible so drivers going the against the rush may also be routed on the HOV lanes that are closed in that direction. As MysticCobra argues the barricades are quite clear, so no one is at all likely to actually take the lanes the wrong way. However, I'm not convinced that making the lanes routable is the best solution at this point. But it does seem worth discussing.
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby attheyard » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm

HOV usage rate is both city and time-dependent


Note "time dependant" is not just the rate of use; the road is only HOV for certain times during the day, as opposed to 24 hours. When the road is non-HOV anybody can use it. Typically the HOV restriction is only for 2-3 hours a day during the rush hour.

But if I am a visitor to that area on a business trip, commuting in the morning with all the locals, and am totally unfamiliar with the situation, I may decide to trust Waze in such a "mature area" and might get routed onto an HOV lane, recognize it too late and get fined.


Also a relevant point. I noted earlier that thru travelers would have a hard time making the decision that is obvious to the locals, as to whether or not to get on the HOV. The same is true for visitors. This is exactly why I don't understand the I66 setup-if you get on I66 inside the beltway as a non-HOV driver, you WILL be fined. There is a cop sitting at every exit checking cars. Driving east on 66, there is a split in the road where you can either continue on 66 (but the entirety of 66 is now HOV), or you can exit onto the beltway around the city. The beltway around the city is almost never faster, but you have to do it if you're alone in the car. Waze doesn't know this. So why is I66 left as a routing option?
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Re: HOV lane navigation

Postby mysticcobra » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:30 pm

attheyard wrote: This is exactly why I don't understand the I66 setup-if you get on I66 inside the beltway as a non-HOV driver, you WILL be fined. There is a cop sitting at every exit checking cars. Driving east on 66, there is a split in the road where you can either continue on 66 (but the entirety of 66 is now HOV), or you can exit onto the beltway around the city.

Just to clarify for those that don't drive on I-66 nearly every day like I do...There are electronic message signs and metal printed signs that tell you the rules at the entry points. BUT you have to actually read the signs. They look like this: Image

attheyard wrote: The beltway around the city is almost never faster, but you have to do it if you're alone in the car. Waze doesn't know this. So why is I66 left as a routing option?

This is not quite true as it depends on where you are going. If you are going TO DC, it's a lot different than if you are going AROUND DC. I would never downtown if going from Fairfax to Annapolis, the beltway is always faster if traffic is moving at speed. But if going to DC before or after the HOV restriction time, I would take I-66 as it is faster.

There are a lot of details to consider here but I think these HOV routes need to be an available option. Can these options be setup in waze so whenever you request a route that potentially includes one of these HOV routes you are presented with at least two options INSTEAD OF defaulting to the one fastest route? My OEM Ford GPS system presents two options as the default and lets you pick.
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