why no left turn at intersection

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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:25 pm

bz2012 wrote:I don't really think WAZE should EVER route people via a 'U-turn' when there is another way to get there.

Ok, but it seems to me that is an argument for removing the segment as U-turns are its only function.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:48 pm

I think its likely a combination of:

1)
bz2012 wrote:along with waiting for a chance to make that 'U' turn safely.

As no one likely makes the U, waze likely doesn't have good data on what that wait is, and thus may well be severely underestimating this wait.
and
2)
bz2012 wrote:Granted, there may be a 'right on red after stop' advantage, at that intersection that we are not seeing.

Waze likely does have data showing the right is on average significantly faster than going straight/left.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:43 pm

bz2012 wrote:I think another possible 'fix' is to make the 'crossover' on the long route a 'parking lot road'.
Any objections to this?

I don't think this is a good idea. First, its not really a parking lot road. Second, from a routing perspective, you might as well simply remove it rather than making it a parking lot road. If you make it a parking lot road, I don't think it will ever be used for routing.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:33 pm

But you don't have the data that waze uses to make the calculations. Waze has said that the average speed data available in the editor is not the base data that the routing algorithm uses. Waze keeps data on how long it takes to go each direction at the end of the segment. So waze has data on the difference for turning right compared at least to going straight and left, that you are not accounting for in your calculations.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:54 pm

Its a routing algorithm issue.
The live map shows the routing algorithm's fastest route. But waze routes fine if the navigation type is set to shortest.
Bluebonnet.jpg
Bluebonnet.jpg (25.75 KiB) Viewed 3616 times

Thus, I do not believe that any correction to the map is warranted. My understanding of the issue is that with the speed data that waze has, waze has calculated that on average it is faster to take the right/U than it is to wait at the light to make the left turn. Sometimes you can fix this by actually driving the U route so waze gets better data.

I'm not sure that this is considered a "problem" to be fixed, as based on the waze data it seems that it is the fastest route.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby bz2012 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:44 am

They certainly warrant an extra look by the people that program the routing server!!!!
Perhaps the 'Goofy routing' thread is a good one for these cases.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby bz2012 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:33 am

Here is some REALLY goofy routing:
Even though WAZE shows the driver west bound on I10 along this segment,
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat=29.82985&lon=-94.40429&env=usa&layers=900&segments=49036474
it is routing him to take this path
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat=29.82985&lon=-94.40429&env=usa&layers=900&segments=49037383,49040352,49040608,49040378

If a human being were doing this, I would be asking 'what COULD they have been thinking????'

Here is another, nearby case, just a bit to the west, where WAZE clearly thinks the driver is on the access road despite GPS data showing the driver moving along a line that is clearly to the south of I-10.https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=4&lat=29.82747&lon=-94.44599&env=usa&layers=900
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby bz2012 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:01 am

scerruti wrote:
detour.png

permalink

I started a different thread on this, but after stewing about it I think this may be the same problem; needlessly avoiding left turns.

This is a drive I do two to three times daily. This was at a low traffic time with no visible alerts. Instead of a left at the light, Waze made several valiant different attempts to route me around this intersection. This was the simplest of the bad options consisting of a right, left at a stop sign and then straight on back through the same intersection.


It took me a while to find the area in question, so here is a better permalink:https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-117.35224&lat=33.19571&zoom=5&layers=900&env=usa

If anyone is interested in testing the routing.
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby bz2012 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:32 pm

And this one could also be a jolly driver post
Image
WAZE wouldn't let him turn left despite the fact that the turns were enabled. I think he meant 'no J turn needed!' because Louisiana has been putting J turns in many places.
http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/j-turn/home.aspx

WAZE seems to have implement its own version of the 'J' turn.

I call it the 'Y' turns because it makes the drivers wonder 'Y'! :)
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Re: why no left turn at intersection

Postby bz2012 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:42 am

CBenson wrote:Waze staff has stated that they are addressing the circumstance when historic data creates unreasonable routes to cut time. It is acknowledged that many times, Waze prefers to continue straight, make a u-turn and turn right instead of just turning left in the junction just to save a few seconds. Very often this is perceived as a mistake and not as a time saving.

Waze is testing changes to the routing that will prevent such detours if there is under a 30 sec difference between the routes.

Thanks for taking the time to contact them about the problem.
Here is 'yet another example' of erroneous routing through a U turn rather than simply making a left turn.'
Imagehttps://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat=30.44363&lon=-91.09093&env=usa&layers=TBFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
The 'faster' explanation often given makes no sense from the data we have available. Segment speeds for the avoided segment 15 m @ 36 kph vs the speeds for the 'recommended segments'
East Bound 33 m @ 22 kph, North Bound 10 m @ 32 kph, West Bound 31 m @ 3 kph. Clearly, the 'avoided path' should have been 'faster', based on total average segment travel times.

Perhaps the 'hidden data' on "wait time" would make it clear. It would be nice if the map editor displayed the wait time at the nodes involved at the time the UR was submitted.
Perhaps the User App could capture that information and pass it along so that it could be displayed along with the Problem Report.
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