Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Moderators: krankyd, Unholy

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby davipt » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:54 am

razor2k wrote:
daknife wrote:That would require marking the location of every traffic signal.

I like the avoid left turns onto major traffic routes idea as waze does NOT in fact learn to avoid such. Whenever I leave my apt waze always gives me a route that includes a left turn onto a major route. I occasionally play along and sit and sit waiting for a gap to make the turn in order to teach it that such a route is not adviseable during rush hour, but it has never given me an alternate route.

It doesn't even learn that going one block further west before attempting the turn will almost always get me turned faster due to a light managing the flow of traffic. No light needs to be plotted as traffic turning left there gets through every cycle (maybe two at most on really busy days), as to sitting for two, three or even four cycles of that same light while waiting to turn at the intersection Waze suggests.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2


I agree with this assessment. Waze had never learned my preferred route home after almost a year. It will more times than not still send me an alternate way.

I have to say that restricting left turns on heavily traveled roads until you get to a controlled intersection seems like a good idea!

I wouldn't want to be the waze guinea pig stuck and nervously waiting for a chance to scoot across without causing an accident when you could've been safely led several blocks down the road by going to a traffic light.

Just one of those things I've tried but not worth the aggravation! Or an accident possibly resulting in this type off dangerous move.


No automatic system can be as smart as the community. It's the local editor's job to identify problematic "left turns" and make sure there is a separate segment for that turn - if it's that bad, there should be a left turn separate lane for sure. Having a separate segment for the left turn and straigth ahead, waze will learn the left turn segment is slow and will then route people straight ahead.

I'd rather have the editors deciding if a left turn is safe and quick or dangerous by splitting the traffic information with relevant segments and then have the one algorithm taking care of it.
Image
Bruno D. Rodrigues | Global Champ | Coordinator and Manager for Portugal | Expert iPhone and others
Forum PT | Wiki PT | Facebook PT | Twitter PT
davipt
Global Champ Mentor
Global Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Oeiras, Portugal
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby davipt » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:23 pm

AndyPoms wrote:Waze knows the time to turn at intersections. Adding unnecessary turn lanes overly complicates the map and leads to other routing problems. A CM was recently removed for creating them (among other reasons).


How the heck does Waze know the time to turn? Is there an internal average speed or time value per-node-per-segment-per-direction now? I thought there was only averages per segment... How does it work then?

Update: I'm only advocating a separate exit lane when there really is a physical exit lane, and the traffic justifies it. here's an example of an exit lane (right one, but irrelevant) that I had to push back quite a lot because when there is traffic, it stops at the beginning of the ramp and this way it won't mark the remaining straight-ahead freeway as jammed. Or the one below that has a red-light that is closed much more time than the one going forward and hence without the left exit lane the major segment would become jammed.
Image
Bruno D. Rodrigues | Global Champ | Coordinator and Manager for Portugal | Expert iPhone and others
Forum PT | Wiki PT | Facebook PT | Twitter PT
davipt
Global Champ Mentor
Global Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Oeiras, Portugal
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby davipt » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:29 pm

CBenson wrote:My experience is the opposite. Waze does clearly avoid some left turns. I frequently see URs where wazer indicates a routing problem precisely because waze didn't route through the left turn. I also play along a sit and wait for the gaps to make the turn and waze has learned to avoid the turn when I have done this.


I don't doubt your experience, I'm just curious about real facts and how would the internal algoright know you are turning left or going forward or anything else - the question above - "is there internal values per-node-per-direction-per-segment"?
Image
Bruno D. Rodrigues | Global Champ | Coordinator and Manager for Portugal | Expert iPhone and others
Forum PT | Wiki PT | Facebook PT | Twitter PT
davipt
Global Champ Mentor
Global Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Oeiras, Portugal
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby davipt » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:32 pm

CBenson wrote:Yes waze has stated that there is time value per-junction-per-segment-per-direction. Waze has said for quite some time that averages per segment that are available through WME are not the speed values used for the routing calculations.


Ahhh good to know. Any link at hand for that information? Any idea if it's again something NA only or generic?
Image
Bruno D. Rodrigues | Global Champ | Coordinator and Manager for Portugal | Expert iPhone and others
Forum PT | Wiki PT | Facebook PT | Twitter PT
davipt
Global Champ Mentor
Global Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Oeiras, Portugal
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby jonnybignote » Thu May 02, 2013 12:35 am

I have to jump on here and heartily agree that this is sub optimal.

I live in the Los Angeles area - during most times of the day, but most definitely rush hour, it is not possible to make a left turn at a stop sign (no electronic signal) onto, or go straight through a major busy road (think crossing 4 lanes) as Waze constantly has me do.

I can tolerate the idea with a signal, but not where there is no mechanism to stop the traffic I'm trying to turn across.

A quickly accessible option to toggle that on or off (together with highways on or off) would make all the difference.
jonnybignote
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:17 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby jonnybignote » Thu May 02, 2013 4:25 am

It's just a big time waste unfortunately - I never realise until I turn onto the street that it doesn't have a signal, so I'm stuck at turning around and trying to find another street that will let me turn left - do not all gps systems have the information that an intersection is stop signs or signals? I don't know.

I really value Waze's routing capability especially in friday afternoon traffic, as it can get me places via very creative non-freeway routes in good time - everything would be pretty much perfect if I could avoid the left turn situation.
jonnybignote
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:17 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:36 pm

Since this has come up a number of times, I created an entry in the FAQ. If you want to discuss the Wiki entry on this topic please go to this thread in the Wiki forum.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:21 am

SocalToe wrote:If in the map editor the allowed turns had some additional functionality....

1. Time restrictions.
2. An indication of turning ease...
A. Allowed but not recommended
B. Normal
C. Best place to turn

Waze is working toward time-based turn restrictions. The other sounds nice, but will be highly subjective to many variables not visible to editors. From prior conversations it is believed that if a turn takes longer than an alternate turn to the same point, Waze will eventually route that faster path. As always drivers need to make best judgment for any maneuver in traffic.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu May 02, 2013 2:39 am

If you avoid a route and always pick a different route, Waze will learn the average speed of the other route is faster.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 596 times

Re: Avoid Left Turns onto busy roads

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu May 02, 2013 4:35 am

* All other GPS systems use maps that are usually years out of date after you use them for a few years (or spend hundreds of dollars for updates).
* No GPS that I know has the knowledge of what intersections have lights vs not.
* Unless there is a database of the information as to where are traffic lights, it would take years to have Waze editors mark every intersection with a traffic light or stop sign. It is much faster just to drive the area and let Waze determine people are not getting through that intersection in any fast time.
* Only Waze can give you current actual traffic flow information on any street (not just the major highways and roadways) helping you identify where to avoid.

For all the things people say Waze cannot do for them, I can see the 10x more things it already does do for us that people already forget. :mrgreen:
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 596 times

PreviousNext

Return to Navigation & Routing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users