Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby BrutusNL » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:50 am

jaimevisser wrote:Also, people make mistakes, even us godly editors :P. It might not be the right approach but having waze users try illegal stuff confirms (or refutes) assumptions that have been input by map editors.
True, but maybe I'm a little conservative when it comes to computers overruling people without any human control. And that might seem strange since I'm working at a software company :oops: . I'd prefer if:
- it doesn't encourage illegal behavior, so no instructions for illegal turns, no matter what.
- it records any movement (which it already does) and if it detects something strange (many people ignoring turn/direction restrictions) it notifies the AM to check and confirm.
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby BrutusNL » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:55 am

[offtopic]
jaimevisser wrote:People actually want waze to be able to calculate a wild round trip where it tries to maximize data gathering.
Come to think of that. It's a sweet idea. Would be cool to have an option in Waze to calculate a sightseeing tour for say 2.000 points, with a minimum of kilometers and start/end at my house. Of course obeying the restrictions ;). Maybe even route me to the closest treasure chest? Those are hard to find and I wouldn't mind doing a little cruzing to pick one up if I knew in advance where it is and how far away.[/offtopic]
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby deeggo » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:59 am

That leads to the question if there is any difference between a manually added turn restriction and a turn allowance that just hasn´t been done by the server yet. I mean, when I add a new junction with all turns mode off, is that the same as when I add a junction with all turns mode on and then manually create turn restrictions for all road combinations on the junction?
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby BrutusNL » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:01 pm

deeggo wrote:when I add a new junction with all turns mode off, is that the same as when I add a junction with all turns mode on and then manually create turn restrictions for all road combinations on the junction?
That's deep :? . I don't know what is true, but I would expect it to have the same effect.
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby deeggo » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:05 pm

Well, if it's true, then the server has no way of seeing the difference between a turn that is very much illegal, restricted by an AM to prevent people from dying due to a terrible ghost riding accident on a freeway on one hand, and on the other hand a turn restriction that may be there since the basemap just because no one ever took that turn yet.

It might explain partially why the server just sends you against traffic on a freeway for a pumpkin.
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby robin1979 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:43 pm

Nodes attached to 'locked' roads are considered 'locked', so it will not route you through an unverified turn there. However, munching mode seems to ignore the locked attribute, so it routes you wrongly there.
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:31 pm

jaimevisser wrote:Basemap roads with no entrance (all unmunched/unnamed roads) must also be accessible, that might also be a reason to allow seemingly illegal turns.


This doesn't actually make any sense. Think about it. What we can observe is that Waze will not normally route through No Entrance roads. But if you drive over one, then Waze will learn that the turn is allowed and the road is one-way or two-way.

But to say that Waze should just route over such roads in case they work - why not just make them two-way roads with all turns enabled then? The whole points is that Waze won't route you on such roads until it gets confirmed the roads exist, that the turns are allowed and it knows the directionality.

jaimevisser wrote: Also, waze might just want you to try to confute current knowledge in the map by making an illegal turn. Cookie munching is an 'hey, let's try this for a change!' mode so it's routing can never be 100% road-legal AND learn new stuff. If you can't make a turn, just don't, waze will recalculate anyway ;). Maybe it should be renamed to more accurately reflect this behaviour. Another option is having a (safe) Munching mode which will only munch known drivable roads and a 'Wild Exploration' mode which pretty much does what munching now does.


This is just wild speculation trying to excuse broken behaviour. And I don't want to be on the legal team that defends Waze saying "yeah, we added this option to allow you to turn into oncoming one-way traffic - we called it 'wild exploration mode'" :roll:
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:35 pm

jaimevisser wrote:There has been more talk of a 'wild exploration' mode on uservoice. People actually want waze to be able to calculate a wild round trip where it tries to maximize data gathering.

Also, people make mistakes, even us godly editors :P. It might not be the right approach but having waze users try illegal stuff confirms (or refutes) assumptions that have been input by map editors.


1. That's fine, but it should never be a routing option
2. Your idea doesn't really work. One person doing a U-turn on a one-way road isn't going to confirm or refute any assumptions. Waze only makes changes to the map automatically when it seems many people doing the same thing. So you *still* have to go in as a map editor (or report a map error, and have someone else fix it).
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:46 pm

This route on the Livemap now routes correctly (with two alternatives even):
http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... g=89629515

Unfortunately, there have been so many changes and edits, it's hard to know why it is now working correctly. To test, I have unlocked these two roads:

The northern of the two may have been unlocked when I first found the routing error. But I can't be sure. Unfortunately @Deego did an edit on the road and I don't know what he changed.

The purpose of this is to confirm that
a) locking a road does affect routing (which is what we have told, although programmer->Hebrew->English makes me worry about what is lost in the translation)
b) that in certain extreme cases (perhaps when the distances are long - over 18km), Waze will prefer a shortcut even if the turn is restricted, and even if road-munching is turned off

This shouldn't affect anyone except Dutch drivers with road-munching turned on, who miss their exits. And if they turn the wrong way up a ramp when following a GPS, I'm told Dutch law means it is their fault anyway.

I think it is really, really important to establish whether locking a road is necessary to force correct routing (indeed, we're told it just adds weight, so maybe an even more extreme case would still go wrong, but perhaps is impossibly unlikely).
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Re: Routing ignores all turn restrictions and road closures

Postby robin1979 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:48 pm

Please stop editing on the other side of the world.

We already discovered it was due to the roads *not* being locked, and that's why I locked them.
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