Missing prompts

Moderator: Unholy

Re: Missing prompts

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:21 pm

deeggo wrote:
waynemcdougall wrote:Well I can add this. In the last week, Waze has changed the routing instructions. So at a roundabout where it used to be "take the 1st exit", "take the 2nd exit" and "take the 3rd exit" it is now (and correctly) "turn left", "go straight through" and "turn right". What I find particularly interesting is that the "go straight through" is on to a road with a different name. I'm speculating that this change has also meant driving instructions stopped working correctly at this fork - Waze's new algorithm approximates both directions as straight through, and ignores the change in road name. I'm going to email Waze.

That's a bummer! The Netherlands is full of roundabouts, many of them with more than 4 exits. So I was hoping they would change every roundabout to #-th exit.


I'm curious to understand you correctly. Because I imagine that roundabouts with more than 4 exits will still use the #-th exit approach (whether they will keep - go straight on when it is, I don't know). Or do you want all roundabouts to be consistent in the prompt approach? So you want all roundabouts to say take the nth exit?

deeggo wrote:
waynemcdougall wrote:While you're listening @Deego, on 21 October you edited this road:
http://world.waze.com/cartouche/?zoom=3 ... 1=89629515

which annoyed me intensely, because it was the focus of attention by Waze support for a routing bug, and I'd asked people not to edit it. :roll: Can you remember what changes you made?

And note that I've made another change to it now for testing purposes - it won't affect routing - please don't edit it in the meantime. Please. It will all be discussed here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6077

I didn't know that. I just changed its name, cause the name wasn't in accordance with the signs above the road. I just found that out passing that road and changed it after coming home.


An unhappy (for me) coincidence. But good work by you, as usual. So you didn't lock that road segment?
Waze User Manuals, Map Editing guide and support at http://www.waze.com/wiki
Wayne McDougall
Make Friends with me on Facebook and we'll compete against each other on the Scoreboard
http://www.facebook.com/wayne.w.mcdougall
waynemcdougall
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:59 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Missing prompts

Postby waynemcdougall » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:34 am

deeggo wrote:
waynemcdougall wrote:I'm curious to understand you correctly. Because I imagine that roundabouts with more than 4 exits will still use the #-th exit approach (whether they will keep - go straight on when it is, I don't know). Or do you want all roundabouts to be consistent in the prompt approach? So you want all roundabouts to say take the nth exit?


I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you said all roundabouts will now be in the "keep left/right/continue straight" format. I guess you didn't mean that and indeed they're not, as I witnessed today in my car.


Sorry for not being clear. I think most roundabouts replace an intersection where four roads meet, and in these it appears waze is trying very hard for left, straight through and right, as the directions. They seemed to have done very well, although I've met one roundabout and can't see why it doesn't get the same treatment.

deeggo wrote: My personal perference is that all roundabouts would be in "take the #th exit" format.


I think you are in a minority. I've seen lots of forum posts where people have been trying to figure out the magic rules for a go straight through command.

deeggo wrote: I have been annoyed for a long time by a oval shaped roundabout in my region, that triggers a continue straight for both continuing straight (which is the 2nd exit) and turning left (which is the 3rd exit). Support couldn't get it right either. Imho it is clear that the server cannot always properly tell what is straight and what not. So better not use that then. The number of the exit however is always exact. No interpretation by the server needed.


You make a good point. I've never suffered that, but we're not big on roundabouts in my country. I'd really like to look at this one of yours - could you give a permalink, if you don't mind me having a look.
Waze User Manuals, Map Editing guide and support at http://www.waze.com/wiki
Wayne McDougall
Make Friends with me on Facebook and we'll compete against each other on the Scoreboard
http://www.facebook.com/wayne.w.mcdougall
waynemcdougall
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:59 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Missing prompts

Postby waynemcdougall » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:31 am

deeggo wrote: I have been annoyed for a long time by a oval shaped roundabout in my region, that triggers a continue straight for both continuing straight (which is the 2nd exit) and turning left (which is the 3rd exit). Support couldn't get it right either. Imho it is clear that the server cannot always properly tell what is straight and what not. So better not use that then.


1. You have beautiful roads. And a beautiful map.
2. I notice there are little kinks in the connections of the roads to the roundabout. Not that that is the cause, but I'm curious about why they are there. Can I learn something?
3. Not that you needed confirming, but yes I confirm the same problem.
4. No wonder you are annoyed. It is totally unacceptable to get wrong verbal instructions.
5. I'd guess that it is the angle of arrival and departure. A long thin roundabout - but that design must be standard. Are there other roundabouts in this shape that work correctly? That you can point me at?
6. BUT I don't get straight through instructions here: http://world.waze.com/cartouche/?zoom=7 ... =101183984
Rather it's take the 2nd exit going from SW to NE or NE to SW
7. But man other places work fine, such as here:
http://world.waze.com/cartouche/?zoom=7 ... 1=84320144
8. I do think continue straight and turn left and turn right at roundabout are better for people to understand, especially in places where nearly all the roundabouts are simple. But it has to work for all cases!
9. One way would not be to make it a roundabout at all. Just roads that are in an oval shape. But would drivers consider it to be a roundabout, and expect at the nth exit?
10. On review I think it is the angle of the relative locations of the entrances and the exits - it's probably too complex to look at the angle of the departing road segment, which will change.
11. My suggestion would be if the distance is more than 40m to switch to nth exit prompts. That should be easy to implement.
12. What is the current status of your discussions with Waze HQ support?
Waze User Manuals, Map Editing guide and support at http://www.waze.com/wiki
Wayne McDougall
Make Friends with me on Facebook and we'll compete against each other on the Scoreboard
http://www.facebook.com/wayne.w.mcdougall
waynemcdougall
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:59 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Missing prompts

Postby waynemcdougall » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:59 pm

deeggo wrote:
waynemcdougall wrote:4. No wonder you are annoyed. It is totally unacceptable to get wrong verbal instructions.
I agree. You can watch the map on your device and see where to go. However, I want the instructions to be right AND I want to understand how it works and why it doesn't in this case. I'm a precisian :geek:


It's not merely about precision (although that is important). I never watch the map on my device. It's not safe to do so. (IMO, and certainly in my car). And I'd never glance down when approaching a large complicated (to me) roundabout. And I'd trust straight through, as it is very clear.

So it needs to be fixed because it is wrong and dangerous. It's not about you being precise.

deeggo wrote:in NL, many 'simple' roundabouts connecting 4 roads can even be a bit tricky, as the angles between the exits may be far from 90 degrees. So, continue straight may actually be 'keeping a bit left', if you get what I mean. But enough about my preference. Either way, the system has to do it right, but we agree on this.


Yes, I understand. I don't mind if it is a bit to the left. but major differences shouldn't be straight ahead. I'd be interested in seeing any other even 'simple' ones that you think are wrong.

Don't undersell yourself. Your preferences seem entirely reasonable. I think at a + or near + roundabout, left, right or straight through is ok(better IMO). Anything wonky and Waze inbstructions need to play it safe.

deeggo wrote:
9. One way would not be to make it a roundabout at all. Just roads that are in an oval shape. But would drivers consider it to be a roundabout, and expect at the nth exit?
It formally is a roundabout. The traffic signs say so. Furthermore, the distance between the 2nd and 3rd exit in this case is so small, that only a "Turn right" wouldn't be enough. The turn right for the 3rd exit would be heard upon passing the 2nd exit, causing people to quickly take that exit.


Good. That's what I thought. In future, we will get a "and then" for instruction that quickly follow each other. But regardless, this should clearly be a roundabout with working roundabout instructions.

deeggo wrote:
11. My suggestion would be if the distance is more than 40m to switch to nth exit prompts. That should be easy to implement.
I think it should be dependent of the diameter. A hypothetical roundabout with a diameter of 10m with ten exits has 6m per exit. Maybe the angle is a better approach. Then it should say if the angle between exits is smaller than X then switch to nth exits prompts.


I think we'll see if my suggestion will work. :-) Because it can take existing data from routing server. Whereas your suggestion requires a lot of information and calculations in surrounding areas. Think about the implementation.

See at that roundabout, I'd be happy if it said (turn right at the aroundabout) for the first exit and (take the second exit) and (take the third exit) for the next two.

It just may easier to put an override on.

I thought about just going by size, but I've seen bigger roundabouts that are still just large +

12. What is the current status of your discussions with Waze HQ support?
Support more or less gave up, because they didn't know what the actual mechanism is. That surprised me. Their colleagues made it.[/quote]

A support person isn't going to be a programmer. And programmers shouldn't waste time on support.

That's why it is so important to carefully prepare a case and argument that you pass on to support who can almost just flick it on to the programming development team who can look at it and understand it.

OK, well I'm not going to give up on this until there is an answer. I think I shall recreate this roundabout in the middle of the ocean and find out what the limits are. That is going to take a long time (weeks or months), as I need to wait for the Livemap updates to check the routing. But I won't give up.

Conversely, if it does start working for you, please don't post in this forum topic, along with any other comments or helpful references. Or you can PM me if you prefer.
Waze User Manuals, Map Editing guide and support at http://www.waze.com/wiki
Wayne McDougall
Make Friends with me on Facebook and we'll compete against each other on the Scoreboard
http://www.facebook.com/wayne.w.mcdougall
waynemcdougall
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:59 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Previous

Return to Navigation & Routing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron