Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA  Topic is solved

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Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby mocker_bat » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:57 am

https://www.waze.com/editor/#?%23%3F=&z ... 25&env=usa

Exit from the ramp shows that you cannot go to Matteson Ave.
That is incorrect,
There is restriction there for trucks,
however normal cars are allowed to enter Matteson Ave.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA  Topic is solved

Postby ottonomy » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:25 pm

I took a look at the sign that's posted at the entry to Matteson across from the freeway off-ramp. It's true that the only full prohibition is on trucks weighing over 6,000 lbs, but it also says "No through traffic", which indicates that regular vehicles are allowed to proceed to destinations within the immediate community to which Matteson leads, but not to use it as a path to points beyond. It is a regulatory sign (black on white), which means that it is theoretically enforceable.

Getting Waze to route only into that area, but not beyond it, would be tricky. I'm going to study it, and see if there's a practical way to accomplish that through the use of Private road segments, but I don't think there is an idea answer to this one...
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:23 pm

It is covered in Private Installations.

I believe we need to mark each street segment inside the Primary, mH, or MH square as private (not the highway segments themselves.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby tonestertm » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:00 pm

I can't tell you how many times I've looked at that sign and tried to figure a way to do it. If I remember correctly, I even drew ottonomy's attention to it last year, and we ended up stumped then, too.

@kentsmith9, the thing is, it's not a gated/private community. Everything there, and all other "entrances" to the Big Block are regular local streets. I believe the intent of the sign is simply to discourage freeway exit traffic from using that neighborhood as a route to Points Elsewhere (specifically, taking Matteson as a shortcut to McLaughlin Avenue). This was also probably the genesis of the "roundabout"/traffic calming circle at the first intersection on Matteson. Privatizing the whole Big Block would work for the purpose of that one intersection, but would then unnecessarily restrict all other paths routing through that square area.

This is why I've always chosen to just restrict the straight turn and let people who live there ignore Waze and drive through the intersection.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:42 am

You can test this out with some map changes and then check the livemap after the next update. The private roads setting will prevent crossing the segment unless the destination is in the group of private roads. You don't need a physical gate for this to work like a gated community.

Just know that a sign saying no through traffic is enforceable as a traffic violation, so IMO it would be better to try to restrict the traffic.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby tonestertm » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:37 am

Yes, I well understand how private installations work. I'm saying I don't think this case warrants it.

Setting all of those streets within the "square" as Private would indeed tend to prevent freeway exit traffic from traveling across that neighborhood, but routing between these two segments on Venice and Washington Place, mid-square, for one example, would then become an around the Big Block route, rather than straight down Bledsoe, or straight up Minerva. A route from McLaughlin straight across Matteson to the I-405 S onramp, which is NOT prohibited by any signage, would also become a "round the Big Block" route.

You may also note in Street View, that there is not similar signage preventing the N/S traffic on Sawtelle from entering that street, (I could be wrong, but I don't believe that one sign is CVC-worthy to limit those turns-- can't reasonably read it until you're mid-turn) and in fact there is a Left Turn Arrow Signal on northbound Sawtelle. This reinforces the notion that simply restricting exiting freeway thru-traffic is the intent.

I'm not at all saying the "neighborhood entrance" at the ramp intersection should be unrestricted, I'm saying that a simple Red Arrow (the way it is right now) solves the greater problem while inconveniencing the fewest (residents of that immediate neighborhood, who also benefit the most from the restriction), to the tune of ignoring Waze's instruction to turn left or right there and proceeding straight through the intersection with privilege. They can know/learn better, because they live there. It's not perfect, but IMHO it's a much better solution than making all other routes across that area off-limits.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby ottonomy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:45 am

tonestertm wrote:...but routing between these two segments on Venice and Washington Place, mid-square, for one example, would then become an around the Big Block route, rather than straight down Bledsoe, or straight up Minerva. A route from McLaughlin straight across Matteson to the I-405 S onramp, which is NOT prohibited by any signage, would also become a "round the Big Block" route.

And what's not immediately apparent to anyone who hasn't driven these streets during rush hour is that a route around the block-of-blocks via the big boulevards can literally be a 45 minute undertaking at 5PM, so badly do these streets get gridlocked adjacent to the 405. Legal paths through the neighborhoods are important to preserve, so that Waze has some options when things are at their worst.

Another thing which I just realized, when looking over this particular grid, is that it has a network of alleys, currently set as Parking Lot Roads. If the streets were set to Private, would Waze still be able to penalize routes over the PLRs (they sharing the same penalty properties as Private)?
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:09 pm

I understand PLR and Private have the same penalty.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:27 pm

ottonomy wrote:And what's not immediately apparent to anyone who hasn't driven these streets during rush hour is that a route around the block-of-blocks via the big boulevards can literally be a 45 minute undertaking at 5PM, so badly do these streets get gridlocked adjacent to the 405. Legal paths through the neighborhoods are important to preserve, so that Waze has some options when things are at their worst.

The sign at the front of the entrance of the neighborhood shows that through traffic is a moving violation.
NoThroughTraffic.png
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Therefore this inner neighborhood needs to be set up as a private installation per the Wiki guidelines.
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Re: Update Lock 5: Los Angeles, CA USA

Postby tonestertm » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:24 pm

Kent, there seems to be a serious disconnect here. Please listen carefully to two experienced editors who know this neighborhood firsthand.

The salient point here is that this is not a private installation by any stretch of the imagination nor of the Wiki page.

It's not even an installation. It's a regular PUBLIC city block. These are all public streets.

The intersection under discussion is not a "front entrance", it is one of twelve "entrances" to the block (not counting alleys).

This is one turn restriction at one intersection. All other turns at all eleven other "entrances" to this block are completely unencumbered. No movement other than the Freeway exit to Matteson has the "Thru Traffic Only" restriction.

If you can show what I'm missing on the Private Installations page which applies to this situation, I'd be happy to see it.
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