Updated city/town boundaries

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Updated city/town boundaries

Postby Riamus » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:42 pm

Just to update the other editors... I've cleaned up and/or added the boundaries for the following towns or cities.

Complete or in progress
  • Levering - Completed except east of US-31 as I'm unsure of where that boundary is. It may also need a little cleaning up on Kaiser Ln, north of Levering Rd on the north side of town as I'm not positive of the boundary on that road either.
  • Van - Completed except east of US-31 as I'm unsure of where that boundary is.
  • Pellston - Completed.
  • Brutus - Completed except east of US-31 as I'm unsure of where that boundary is.
  • Oden - Completed.
  • Harbor Springs - Completed.
  • Bay View - Completed thanks to the Bay View Association's help in providing the boundary information.
  • Petoskey - Completed.
  • Charlevoix - Completed. Note that it may look incomplete due to some odd boundaries that catch parts of roads, but not other parts. It's still complete, however.
  • Walloon Lake - Partially completed. The town to the East and South boundaries is completed, but without street view, I don't know where the North and West boundaries are. If someone can find out where those boundaries are and update them, that would be appreciated.
  • Eastport - Completed.
  • Central Lake - Completed.
  • Ellsworth - Completed.
  • East Jordan - Completed.
  • Boyne City - Completed.
  • Boyne Falls - Completed.
  • Bellaire - Completed.
  • Elk Rapids - Completed.
  • Mancelona - Completed.
  • Kalkaska - Completed.
  • Cheboygan - Completed except for the east side, which is outside of my area.
  • Indian River - Completed.
  • Wolverine - Completed.
  • Vanderbilt - Completed.
  • Alba - The main town is completed and US-131 is complete, but I don't know where the east/west boundaries are or exactly where the side street boundaries are.
  • Gaylord - Completed. Note that similar to Charlevoix, some streets may look incomplete due to the way the city boundaries are, but they really are complete.
  • Northport - Completed.
  • Greilickville - Completed.
  • Empire - Completed.
  • Lake Ann - Completed.
  • Traverse City - Completed.

Unable to update due to incorrect city layer
  • Carp Lake - Unknown where the map thinks Carp Lake is, but I can't update any streets in Carp Lake.
  • Conway - The city layer has Conway Twp in southern Michigan marked as Conway. Until that is fixed, I can't update any streets in Conway.

Feel free to fix boundaries on the ones I'm unsure of if you know where they should be.

If it would be useful to change this post into one for everyone to use as a way to show the towns and cities that are fully updated, let me know and I'll edit this to be just a list that we can update for everyone. It may help us to keep track of which ones are done. Being "done" means checking all of the streets and landmarks within the town/city boundaries and making sure they show the town/city name and have the township name removed from primary and alternate streets. It does not refer to making sure everything else is done.
Last edited by Riamus on Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby Riamus » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:50 pm

It may be awhile before the city layer items are fixed. What are your thoughts on setting up Carp Lake as Carp Lake (2) and Conway as Conway (2) for the time being so they can at least show up? I don't like those (2)'s, but it does allow us to show them on the map and we can always change them later when the city layer is fixed. What do you guys think?
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby Riamus » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:14 pm

Ok. In that case, almost all of I-75 (at least in the northern part of the state) needs to have all names removed because every segment or near enough has a city or township listed. As a side note, AlanOfTheBerg did put in the boundaries on one part of I-75, so he may have a reason why it is okay to have the cities? Not sure.

Also, just to be clear on these, the ones mentioned would not matter because there aren't any ramps that cross boundaries among the ones I listed. That may not really matter, but I just thought I'd mention it. And although I understand the mechanism to avoid routing off and back on, I'm curious why they don't just use the street name field and ignore the city field. I can't imagine you're going to find a ramp taking you from I-75 in city 1 to I-75 in city 2 and it not be the same I-75. At least not in Michigan. I wouldn't think that would be the case anywhere, but maybe it is.
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby Riamus » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:37 am

Sounds fine to me, though I can't do anything about I-75 since it's locked at L5. I will remove the notes about I-75 from the completion status, though.
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby Riamus » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:21 pm

sketch wrote:Reports say "I-75 S near Detroit" instead of "I-75 S, Detroit".


As a side note, this isn't even true in most cases in Michigan thanks to townships. In most cases, instead of saying what city you're near, you'll be told you're near the township. For example, if you're in Green Oaks township, you'll likely see "near Green Oaks" instead of the nearest city, which could be Brighton or South Lyon depending where you are in the township. That is another reason townships are a problem in Michigan. There are obviously important townships that need to stay, but there are a LOT of townships that really need to just go away. In northern Michigan, I don't think there are any townships that are important. In most cases, the average person will not even know what township they are in and even if they do, they are very unlikely to ever comment on the township when giving addresses or directions or anything else. Other than in school, I don't think I ever heard anyone say McKinley Township and I lived in that township for 15-20 years. And the only reason it was mentioned in school was as part of the government/social studies type of class.

And take a look at the map of Michigan in the Live Map. Zoom to a level where you can see the majority of county names. How easy is it to pick out a city? Not very easy. You have to sort through all of the mess of townships to try and find the cities. Now, take a look at another state that isn't inundated with townships and see how easy it is to find the cities at the same zoom level. There are a couple of font sizes depending on size of the area, but townships and large cities will use the same font size. Smaller towns or cities may use a smaller font size, helping them to stand out some over the townships, but you're still seeing a ton of extra text that isn't useful.

Anyhow, I just wanted to make note that the "near" part isn't necessarily going to work in Michigan until we get rid of most of the townships.
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby sketch » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:55 pm

FYI, as to I-75: Common editor practice is to leave the city field blank for all freeways. This enables the detour prevention mechanism to work. This does not necessarily apply to ramps, although I believe some editors leave ramp city fields blank too for ease of editing and because ramps don't have addresses on them. There has been talk of adding something to this effect to the Wiki; I'm not sure why it hasn't been done yet.
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Re: Updated city/town boundaries

Postby sketch » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:33 pm

Riamus wrote:Ok. In that case, almost all of I-75 (at least in the northern part of the state) needs to have all names removed because every segment or near enough has a city or township listed. As a side note, AlanOfTheBerg did put in the boundaries on one part of I-75, so he may have a reason why it is okay to have the cities? Not sure.

Also, just to be clear on these, the ones mentioned would not matter because there aren't any ramps that cross boundaries among the ones I listed. That may not really matter, but I just thought I'd mention it. And although I understand the mechanism to avoid routing off and back on, I'm curious why they don't just use the street name field and ignore the city field. I can't imagine you're going to find a ramp taking you from I-75 in city 1 to I-75 in city 2 and it not be the same I-75. At least not in Michigan. I wouldn't think that would be the case anywhere, but maybe it is.

Basically, it's just easier to leave the city names off. You get a problem where a city boundary does fall within a freeway exit—then what do you do? Extend the city name further than it actually is? Or leave it off further into the city? Note that this requires leaving a portion of freeway with no city name outside the exit too, even if it's just a small segment. It's just easier to leave them off and doesn't have a hugely deleterious effect. (Reports say "I-75 S near Detroit" instead of "I-75 S, Detroit".)

It uses the "segment ID", which is essentially a number given to each combination of "state-city-street". So every segment named "I-75 S" in Detroit, Michigan has the same segment ID, but segments have "I-75 S" in Dearborn, Michigan have a different one.

As for why Waze doesn't change it, well, that's a good question that's been asked about most things.
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