Alleys - map or no?

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Alleys - map or no?

Postby davielde » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:59 am

Looking at various threads or wiki pages, different states have different guidance for choosing to map or not to map alleys. In my managed area, it is not really an issue, but having seen the maze of alleys in SuperMario0O's territory in the western UP and some other cities, I can see the benefit of mapping residential alleys behind homes since that would be where people can park. I'm also travelling this week in an area where alleys are everywhere, and parking on the main streets in front of homes is generally non-existent.

I happened to look at Illinois' wiki page tonight and wanted to see if other editors thought that some basic guidance would be appropriate in Michigan:
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Illinois#Alleys

I wouldn't propose to map all alleys, especially not in urban areas where they function more commercially as employee entrances or delivery thoroughfares, and they may not even allow parking. Functioning more as a final destination than a shortcut though, it may be worth considering residential areas where street parking is not allowed or not convenient. Thoughts?
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby lelehman » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:49 pm

PL to Mario's homeland

I think that a small blurb in our wiki is worth a shot. I agree that they should be used primarily in residential areas - I've been toying with mapping this one in my hometown, since no street parking is allowed on Pine River. Not everyone who lives on that road has a driveway, and several others who live on adjacent streets park in driveways that are only accessible from that alley instead of parking in the available street parking. I know that if I had a GPS app that correctly routed me to my driveway that wasn't even located on an actual street, I'd probably use that one over other available apps.

The obvious concern is navigation. With the parking lot road type, Waze shouldn't route you down the alley unless you were specifically choosing a destination located on that alley, so that's good. However, we would have to make sure that house numbers are correctly placed further from or closer to the main road in order to force navigation down the alley (or to avoid it).With the relatively limited number of alleys that we'll probably be mapping, it shouldn't be too hard. We might get a few URs on a case-by-case basis, but they should be pretty easy to fix.

Basically, I would adopt what Illinois has, and then add some language about a) using them for mostly residential areas and b) making sure the house numbers for surrounding streets are correctly located.
Last edited by lelehman on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby Bigbear3764 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:24 pm

If you do map them, make sure you bump the house addresses on the street so they show an editor has confirmed it. Then waze will use it as a searchable address. Then you will need to bump the street the addresses are on to force a map tile rebuild for that segment.

That is our biggest problem in Chicago. The addresses were from a mass down load so they don't get used in a search. It dumps the search to google where their pins are set back and are closer to the alleys. Once we update the street and addresses, routing improves.


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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby davielde » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:07 pm

lelehman wrote:The obvious concern is navigation. With the parking lot road type, Waze shouldn't route you down the alley unless you were specifically choosing a destination located on that alley, so that's good. However, we would have to make sure that house numbers are correctly placed further from or closer to the main road in order to force navigation down the alley (or to avoid it)


bigbear3764 wrote:If you do map them, make sure you bump the house addresses on the street so they show an editor has confirmed it. Then waze will use it as a searchable address. Then you will need to bump the street the addresses are on to force a map tile rebuild for that segment.


Great guidance. Before doing anything definitive, let's get some more consensus and test it out. I don't know if Mario is still in A2 or if he is back in the UP, but it would be great to test in an area like his where there are alleys between every street. In addition to the house number consideration, I'm also wondering if the parking lot road penalty would ever not be enough to prevent usage for thru traffic--particularly with a "shortest distance" scenario.
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby Bigbear3764 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:22 pm

davielde wrote: I'm also wondering if the parking lot road penalty would ever not be enough to prevent usage for thru traffic--particularly with a "shortest distance" scenario.

Guess it could be possible. Just like a restricted turn can be routed thru if Waze sees no other way thru there. I can't remember finding any around Chicago since we set all alleys to parking lots. Every one routed to an alley was to get to an end location.


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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby lelehman » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:24 pm

davielde wrote:I don't know if Mario is still in A2 or if he is back in the UP, but it would be great to test in an area like his where there are alleys between every street.


I think he's still in A2, at least for a little while, but I believe he's headed back up relatively soon for the summer. I'll get him in here, hold on.
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby SuperMari0O » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:05 am

Oh hello everyone! I will be in A2 until around the 4th of May. I am glad we are finally having this conversation because where I am from alleys are extremely important for parking. Another point I wanted to bring up has to do with which road type? and also should we be naming them? I have all of mine named "Alley" but that begins to look quite cluttered in the editor very quickly. Here is a town I just recently made perfect. (geometry and turn restrictions) The problem with my town is that it has had the same aerial since probably mid-2000s.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-87.06 ... 85&env=usa

If only you could have all seen this area before I started fixing it. Here is an example of what my town looked like before:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-89.31 ... 85&env=usa

I should have taken pictures!
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby Bigbear3764 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:27 am

SuperMari0O wrote: and also should we be naming them? I have all of mine named "Alley" but that begins to look quite cluttered in the editor very quickly.

Benefit of naming is that if someone is directed into an alley, TTS will say alley. With no name, TTS will pick up the name of the next segment which is confusing. Also makes it easier to select all segments named alley to change a road type or direction if needed.


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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby SuperMari0O » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:54 am

Ahhh I see. Ya that would be confusing. I know I have seen this discussion somewhere before, but can't remember if there was a consensus. Why do we use the parking lot road type and not private? Private seems much more fitting to me.
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Re: Alleys - map or no?

Postby Bigbear3764 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:29 am

Private works the same way and some areas have gone with that. Alley is listed under parking lots in the wiki on road types.

As long as you all agree, either one will work.

I do like parking lot because the way I use the highlight script. I generally have it set to highlight parking lot roads to 1) make sure they are added right in parking lots and 2) to see alleys marked right.


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