NE DOT FC

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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby the1who » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:18 am

Thanks Bret, I couldn't have said it better there. I am merely providing the stepping stone. I can't go and get every single resource, besides FC maps, I do want to express that editors also get familiar with GIS maps, mainly for the explicit purpose to confirm details that even more popular map products may get wrong. What I mean is, naming conventions for roads, house/parcel numbers for addresses, etc.

But mainly I was trying to provide the direct link to those working in the Plains region with the direct state resource for a FC map to use. As you have stated, I'd like to see in this region, those gravel roads that are considered collector types, to match a primary street. It has been expressed that either dirt or primary street type get treated the same. My goal is to provide the clear concise information on the map for users. These roads span between county lines, from town to town, and are main thoroughfare of travel between such rural towns. Hence why I am pushing for the use of them as such, matching the Road Type Wiki conversion chart as well in this case.

Until we are provided an attribute checkbox for a dirt road or other road variances, the road types will be matched to the FC as the Wiki states. It will be now for us to convince the powers that be to provide us with some extra tools. We have mentioned it to them, they have taken our feedback. Right now we just need to use what we have.

Thanks again for the extra contributions Bret.
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NE DOT FC

Postby the1who » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:48 pm

Here is a link to their website containing their DOT FC maps.

http://www.transportation.nebraska.gov/ ... y-maps.htm
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby rickh7 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:05 pm

I suspect you will need to "sell" more of the level 4+ rank editors, the champs, and so forth before you have a viable chance of getting Waze to implement. But, you never know what is going on, behind the scenes.

For what it's worth, I'd vote for it.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:08 pm

Yeah, 90% of Plains land in multiple states would benefit from it. Functionally there are paved collectors everywhere that gravel/dirt ones direct to, but Waze can't benefit from that lore and might just pick the most direct all-gravel path. And with less Wazers to feed data back, it likely won't learn the paved route quickly.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:00 pm

Is there a way to cast our vote with Waze for an unpaved toggle?
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:56 pm

Based on this: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=567&t=100879

it would seem my proposed fix probably will not work, and is also not according to 2014 Waze guidelines.

the routing mechanism, you'll realize, at the core, it doesn't care about the road types, that is direct from the routing engineer. The hindsight though is long distance routing, where it will favor higher road type classifications to reduce jumping off and on the main route


So even though there is no road type difference that gives urban arterials a higher type than collectors (the difference between yellow and purple on the State FC), having one and implementing may make no difference to the routing engine.

A "gravel" designation is probably the right fix, if the routing engine will obey that like it would dirt roads. "Avoid gravel" in the client would be a welcome addition from both routing preferences, and those that don't like taking their fancy cars on such roads.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:12 pm

So, to provide a potential solution instead of just describing the problem, I think Rokeby and and that segment of Yankee Hill could be downgraded to a regular Street. If Waze will prefer a primary street, those roads will be avoided except for people who have destinations requiring the use of one of them. My assumption is that it might cause minor non-optimal routing for those area residents, if Waze goes for a shortest path that has more turns instead of to the nearest real collector, but hopefully speed and Wazers taking their preferred routes would eventually override. The other advantage is the trade-off we'd be making is generating preferred routing along paved roads for people from outside the area, while sacrificing a bit for the locals who will know better about the best route to/from their homes.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:03 pm

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... 7,76848200

This segment of Yankee Hill is gravel, connecting N-S paved roads. For most destinations, if coming from the South, it's preferable to travel E-W on Saltillo further south. If coming from the North, using any E-W street before Yankee Hill.

The national FC for Nebraska is a bit wonky and is stamped 2007. The state FC isn't much better, stamped 2008. Both have inaccuracies. For example, Yankee Hill does not curve up to meet Hwy2. It goes due east to 91st and terminates. Both Fed and State FC map wrongly, though there's a little "Relocated" on there perhaps hinting at that.

IMHO, more important than matching the FCs directly is routing traffic best for Wazers (which I say as someone who was surprised when Waze first sent me down the section of Yankee Hill between 70th and 84th). As you see on the map, there's only 3 tiny roads that even collect to that segment (and one which can also collect to paved 84th). Combine that with none of it being within city limits, and you have no major incentive to pave it, hence it isn't (though there is a discussion underway to do so in 2017). Since area residents are aware of it being gravel, with near-zero destinations on it other than a few houses and a radio tower, it is avoided, and is very low traffic.

Lincolnites familiar with the southern Lincoln area (and beyond city limits) know to avoid Rokeby as well, as it is unpaved and also has a large break in connectivity. But it currently has the same Waze classification as the paved Saltillo and (mostly) paved Yankee Hill. Rokeby is a downgraded classification in both FCs compared to Saltillo and Yankee Hill.

It seems like we're a bit stuck in that "Minor Hwy" may be a bit overkill for the major N-S and E-W county roads, but that Primary Street is the only next classification down for collectors, and Primary Street is also used for almost every major road inside Lincoln. In near-urban areas, driveways and minor neighborhoods collect to gravel roads, which should collect to the nearest paved, but we don't have a Waze distinction between the two because most "major" roads in Lincoln are "downgraded" from the Wiki's interpretation of FC -> Waze classification. We don't have a classification that distinguishes the arterials (that carry the majority of the intra-city traffic) from the in-neighborhood collectors (that bring people from their personal street out to the arterial). If you look at the State FC there's lots of "yellow" roads as collectors to "purples", but in Waze they're all Primary Street. However, to drivers, we absolutely follow yellow to purple.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby herrchin » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:41 pm

Chiming in on gravel roads. There are areas in far south Lincoln that have a mixture of paved and gravel roads, but all are currently Primary Streets and thus weighted the same. Many are classified by the department of roads as collectors. Since an unpaved type does not exist, and marking the roads as Dirt would not be appropriate for Nebraska, I'm inclined to think bumping many to Minor Hwy would be the right solution to improve routing (and also in line with the classification guidelines). Otherwise, you easily get routed between two paved roads via a gravel road, when an alternate route of same distance/time via all paved roads exists.

Downgrading the gravel segments in mixed paved/gravel areas to a regular Street from a Primary Street might also work? That would move further away from alignment with Waze type to Classification though.
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Re: NE DOT FC

Postby bretmcvey » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:58 pm

Yeah, that's why I'm patiently waiting and have fingers crossed they'll implement the unpaved toggle (similar to how toll roads are handled).
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