Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:19 pm

cactusmonkey1966 wrote:I believe that any requirement to read forums or to read the Wiki would intimidate many from trying their hand at editing. I think your idea of registering with a non usa username so we can contact new editors when we see something we can coach or encourage would be enormously more beneficial.

Regardless of reading it or not, if they don't register in the forum, we can't PM them, and thus can't contact them to let them know of a problem. I've run into plenty of non-usa_* usernames that got me the big "no such user" message when I've tried to PM them. So yea, I think forum registration with a working, confirmed E-Mail address as a requirement to edit would benefit Waze as a whole.

Encouraging a new editor to read the forums is a good idea. Requiring them to at a minimum read the quick start guide is even better (though I'd settle for something which just really points it out with a URL the first time they go to edit). It's really not that big of a read, and it answers a LOT of the questions I've seen pop up in the WME chat window.

IMHO, if the person who gets it has an attitude along the lines of, "What? There's a simple set of instructions that I should follow when editing? Well I don't want to bother with that!" should be discouraged from editing.

We don't have enough editors in Las Vegas by the discussions in this Nevada forum.

Naw, they're probably all busy editing (or making bad edits) and don't bother with the forum. :-)

Let's help them instead of putting up potential roadblocks to getting them started. Once they realize how satisfying editing can be, they'll want to read more to become better editors.

Human nature being what it is, some would, and others wouldn't.

Most new people don't read the Wiki, which shows them how to do it right, because they don't know about it. I know we won't get it, but something like a pop up the first time that provides you with a link to it and you having to check a box saying that you'll read it will at least REALLY call attention to the fact that it's there. There's no way to know if they've actually read it when they check the box, but by doing that you at least make it obvious to them that there's a guide which will give them the information they need for doing it right.

They aren't roadblocks - they're tools. And to do any job right, you need the right tools. And if you can do something that really makes them aware of the Wiki and maybe even encourages them to do so (the quick start guide isn't that big, for crying out loud).

And by encouraging someone to use the right tools sooner, rather than later, you show them neat things they can do that they didn't know about and get them making less errors that then have to be fixed afterwords - usually by an AM or higher who couldn't reach the errant editor since they don't have a valid forum login to PM to.... ;)

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that encouraging people to edit the map is a good thing. I just think that encouraging them to edit the map correctly is a better thing, so pointing them at the tools early on is the best way of handling it.

Encouraging them to simply start editing without providing any guidelines is the way that things like a Split-road Sahara that abc836 now had to clean up happens. "Well, it looks that way in Google Maps!" ....

BTW, if you and/or abc are not already using them, there's a few map-editing tools that I absolutely swear by: The WME Toolbox, WME Color Highlights, the WME Junction Node Fixer, WME Junction Angle Info and last, but not least, the WME Validator.

The above list is given in no particular order of importance to me. :-) Like I said, if you guys aren't already using some of these, check them out. They make editing a LOT better for me.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby cactusmonkey1966 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:09 pm

Re: usa xxx unidentified editors and area managers
WME highlighter from Timbones identifies
- Highlight segments by anonymous editors (usa_* and world_*)
Also can filter edits by editor user ID

So I guess really any editor could be checked but the area managers will have to keep on top of checking their areas.

Ultimately, if anyone is editing crazy things, and area manager should check their area once in a while and be communicating. If any new editor is reading this forum in Nevada and other forums then they should also be trying to learn more by reading wiki editing basics and learning how to ask questions of other editors in forums and of their area manager by clicking on the area manager layer and private messaging that area manager. Right? This is one big project and can be quite satisfying to make the maps better for every user.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:42 pm

I don't have any problem with what you're suggesting. When I see something odd in my area, I always try to communicate with that user/editor. However, if they haven't bothered to create a forum account, there is no method by which I can communicate with them. At that point, all I can do is clean up their mess. A lot of times, I end up not seeing any further edits from those people (edit and runs :-)). And even when they have created a forum account, I many times get no answer at all and checking their user profile shows that they've never logged in. That's why I'm always wishing that they didn't allow you to edit without first registering for the forum and providing a confirmed, valid E-Mail address (so that when they get a PM, they get an E-Mail telling them about it). It's a shame that it will probably never happen. :?

cactusmonkey1966 wrote:Re: usa xxx unidentified editors and area managers
WME highlighter from Timbones identifies
- Highlight segments by anonymous editors (usa_* and world_*)
Also can filter edits by editor user ID.

When I've noticed something odd by a given editor, I will often filter by that editor so I can see what else he/she has been doing. However, I don't see any option anywhere that highlights things done by anonymous editors.... Am I misreading something?
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby the1who » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:56 am

Just to chime in on a particular area I was messing with where someone, don't know if even posting in the NV forum yet, had created roads to fix a split. But in doing so, all it was was adding the road, it wasn't even connected to the highway. The one in particular I am talking about is US-93 by the only casino before the Hoover Dam. I did my best to clean up the split that was well, not really split. It should work better now. I'll go back to catching up on other NV posts here shortly.
Last edited by the1who on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Um, 93 not 95 :)
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:39 am

Glad to see there's another person helping to clean up messes down that way. ;-)

All the talk of Rank 1 editors splitting roads that should not be (and in many cases, botching it) has been making me nervous - to the point of actually taking preemptive action up here in Reno. Any road that's Primary Street or higher, if the satellite imagery suggests that it could be split (wide, center dividers, etc), I've been going through and locking at Rank 2. The idea is that it will hopefully delay a new editor long enough that he/she will have actually learned something about proper editing by the time they make it to Rank 2, and thus will know better.

Granted, no guarantee it will happen that way, but I figure it at least improves the odds. :mrgreen:

The Vegas area is so much more populous than up here is, it might be worth considering doing the same for that area as well.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby the1who » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:53 am

I agree, there is some learning I have to do too for road type rank locks that some have discussed I believe, or at least it was added in a script and I need to familiarize myself. Some streets should be at a L3 or higher for sure, the major/minor collectors, major/minor highways, freeways etc.

I was guilty when I first started for replicating exactly as the aerial has it with split roads, back then it was too easy with the old editor that existed then. It had a feature for splitting roads. It was a quick and easy click of the mouse. Today it is so much more tedious unless there is some add-on script that handles it that I am unaware of because I don't use it. I also don't do it knowing more of the Wiki. As someone who is below a certain level, I have advocated having some training sessions and tutorials of sorts, instead of just releasing the uninformed editor to the live environment.

Well, hope to get it all sorted out. It will I am sure only get better, but we still have the growing pains to live with too.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:30 am

the1who wrote:Some streets should be at a L3 or higher for sure, the major/minor collectors, major/minor highways, freeways etc.

I agree that freeways & their corresponding onramps/offramps should be Rank 3 or higher. But I seriously believe that roads below those that are important enough to warrant protection against newbie editors should be set to Rank 2. At least, initially until there's reason to need to lock them higher. When I discussed it with Jemay (Southwest Region RC), he agreed that Rank 2 for those types of roads was good.

Well, hope to get it all sorted out. It will I am sure only get better, but we still have the growing pains to live with too.

No doubt about that. :D
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby the1who » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:36 am

Understand on the Rank 2, I am not going around edit preventing, that isn't my position, but more of the main infrastructure protection and to protect not only my work, but our work, even other senior editors work. It is as you said in the other introduction post :)
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:38 am

<mrburns>
Excellent.....
</mrburns>

:D
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby irowiki » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:46 pm

cactusmonkey1966 wrote:Re: usa xxx unidentified editors and area managers
WME highlighter from Timbones identifies
- Highlight segments by anonymous editors (usa_* and world_*)
Also can filter edits by editor user ID


Where are these options at? I must be missing them somewhere...

Code: Select all
Highlight Segments
 Editor Locks (Red)
 Traffic Locks* (Dark Red)
 Toll (Dashed)
 No Name (Orange)
 No City (Gray)
 One Way (Blue)
 Unknown Direction (Cyan)
 Time/Vehicle Restrictions (Purple)
 Unterminated Roads* (Lime)
 Filter by City (Yellow)  invert

 Highlight a Road Type (Purple)
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