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Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:49 am
by SuperDave1426
cactusmonkey1966 wrote:Using the Nye County my gis website http://nyenv.mygisonline.com/, you simply hover over the property, or click near the green dot and the information has a pop up window. However, the property number is also listed near the street and once you've got the right street name, then it's easy to add a bunch of addresses.

Using http://www.nyecounty.net/index.aspx?NID=550 which is the county assessors office, the data is used to verify street names, but more useful is determining dirt road versus paved. I'm working on that project right now actually and nearly halfway through the city. There are a lot of dirt/gravel roads that the fancy city slickers don't want Waze to send them with their fancy cars on the dirty roads I suppose... Especially when there are enough paved roads there to navigate around the rougher roads.

That latter one I could see as being useful for someone who wants to dig that deeply. The interactive map shows you street names as well, but isn't all that helpful for determining the type of road. So I could see that as potentially being useful being added to a new section of the Nevada page to cover those types of resources.

I found that I see a lot of direction errors because Waze address points and/or Google address points are closer to the neighboring street where the Wazer was misdirected. I fix Waze and sometimes Google Map Maker. If the user picks the wrong selection in Waze and uses Google it will still direct incorrectly behind the house closer to the Google point. Needs to be 100% the same for Waze to give you the Waze address point if already available. Work in progress I suppose.

Yea, and it always will be until Waze decides to no longer use Google Maps POI/Address Location information as primary. I'm not sure I see that happening, given Google's ownership of Waze. I hope I'm wrong on that, though.

Yes I've looked at your wiki editing... Its a nice starting point. I guess we could put other Nevada related standards on that Wiki Page. Maybe you could consider looking at BLM Nevada Maps?
or the Nevada Forrest Service Road Maps? Maybe if we agree that they are useful as well, I'll add them to the Wikipedia Nevada page.

I think you meant "Nevada Wiki Page" - this ain't Wikipedia. :D

While I'm not sure how valuable those particular items would be to the average Waze editor, I personally don't see anything wrong with creating another section on the Nevada page to include things like that. Just my vote on the subject, anyway. :-) It could prove useful to those who are really digging deep.

There are a lot of dirt roads in NV that are not named or mis labled, and most are not aligned with the arial image anyhow. While one can spend a lot of time cleaning up dirt roads in NV the information should be accurate. I've done some roads outside Las Vegas using the BLM roads. The Forest Service link isn't working right now for me, so I've contacted their website to report a problem...we'll see...

Also, maybe a link for those interested in reporting on Google Map Maker, but I think our priority should be Waze of course.

I don't see that as appropriate on the Nevada page at all. In any case, teaching people how to use Google Map Maker is outside the scope of the Waze Wiki, IMO. Perhaps a brief mention on this Wiki page that when correcting street addresses in Waze that it can be a good idea to use Google Map Maker and make sure that the location of an address pin is likewise in the right spot. But beyond that, I don't think it would be such a good idea.

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:54 pm
by SuperDave1426
cactusmonkey1966 wrote:Personally I'd rather encourage new editors to get their points by reading the places wiki in my signature below. Address addition doesn't really get my editing interests to a high excitement level. Placing the place point in the right spot and editing in the address in the places function as well.

Ok, um... :?: Address locations are supposed to be entered as house numbers on the street. Tedious, but that's how it's supposed to work. If you're saying that you're using points (and encouraging people to use place points) to mark street addresses, I'm fairly sure that's not how they're intended to be used. I'd suggest having a discussion with our RC jemay or with AlanOfTheBerg to get a confirmation of that.

If I misread that and that's not what you're saying, then ignore the above. :P

By the way your reference to using 3rd party sources (Bing) bring up copyright issues so I tell editors to use more official resources rather than another GPS app or website. The data can be old and inaccurate. There have been plenty of accuracy issues even with Google. Even on road placement, and names. Street view is helpful to correct street names if editors can see the street sign, but in smaller cities and outlying areas we can't depend on another website/app to be accurate 100%. Garbage in garbage out.

No argument there. :D Google was what I knew about, and Bing as well, so those were what I was using at the time. And I still use them for certain references. They're not completely useless, and they have to be reasonably accurate; Google Maps in particular since that's the source for their navigation service (nobody is going to use a GPS nav app that constantly sends them to the wrong location), so they're not a bad source of information (again: I'm in complete agreement that both of them have their issues and do contain inaccuracies). Since the information that they're presenting (Map data) is publicly available, what I can't copy is their actual implementation.

That said, when I'm dealing with "where the $#@! is that address?" situations (especially when dealing with a UR), I prefer a more authoritative source. I figure others would like to as well, so that's why I started adding the other resources as I found them.

So your official resource Wikipedia page is a great idea. Thanks for taking the initiative.

Wiki page! Wiki page! NOT Wikipedia!!! Gaaaaaahhhh! :D :lol: :mrgreen: Wikipedia is a completely separate thing - they offer an "encyclopedia" type service using Wiki software. Hence the name. We're just using MediaWiki software for our Wiki pages, so it's just a Wiki. "Wikipedia" is a trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation.

[Clears throat] Ok, so moving on... :-)

Thank you for the complement, however. <grin> When I first asked in a different forum about sources for address information, AlanOfTheBerg replied with two things: One, he suggested asking in the Nevada forum (here) thinking that someone else might have some sources, and he pointed me to the afore-mentioned Nevada page. I took one look at it, and thought, "That's it? One lousy link to a Clark County GIS source?" So I used a couple of GIS references that Alan kindly provided links to, and I went on a hunt for the others. I believe I've got all Nevada counties accounted for at this time.

Like I said previously, I've got no objection to adding another section to that page for non-Interactive GIS stuff that could be of use to people. I said I wasn't sure how much interest those things would be to the average editor, but that wasn't an objection against inclusion. Clearly, you get a lot of use out of them at a minimum, so I see no reason why someone else wouldn't as well. In fact, I've already added the BLM Nevada Maps & Nevada Forest Service Road Maps links to the page, 'cause I'm just that cool. 8-) :lol:

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:52 pm
by SuperDave1426
cactusmonkey1966 wrote:Places replace former landmarks to create app searchable destinations especially when others don't list them. If you notice Waze "place" choices come up first. The address in the Place database which users can key in addresses are used in place of strictly an address. So the reason I promote places in Las Vegas is simply because most people looking for a business or a tourist interest will not have a number address. Adding house numbers is very tedious.

No argument there that it's tedious. But I'm still not sure what you're saying above. If you're adding Point Places to give a business location a name and it's address, that's great. But if you're adding a Point Place as nothing but a street address, then I'm pretty sure that's not how they're supposed to be used. And Waze has stated that they want street addresses added as house numbers to newly created roads, etc. When someone searches for an address and not a business name, it looks there if it can't find the address in Google. Point Places are not intended to be JUST a street address, as I understand it.

Again, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying WRT that. It's not clear to me.

And yes Google and Bing have issues with number addresses in Las Vegas quite frequently especially with gated communities being directed the wrong way or to the locked gate in the back. So while adding addresses is tedious, but needed, I wonder why Waze ranks it lowest in point accumulation. 1 point per segment no matter how many addresses you add. If the reader here realizes Places are not at all used for house addresses, then read the Places link in my signature, they'll understand my point.

Ok, to me that says that you're not advocating people use Point Places as just addresses, so that's good.

Actually, I'm not sure about how many points you get for doing the street addresses (house numbers). I saw someone ask one of the rank 5/6 editors (can't remember who, now) about do you get points for each house number, and the answer was an "I don't know." Have you seen something documented somewhere that specifically says that the one-segment, one-point rule applies WRT house number editing?

For myself, I don't edit because I want points, I edit because I want the road information to be right (the points are nice, sure, but they're not my primary motive). But I understand that there are going to be people for whom point count is the primary motivator, and if they do apply the one-segment/one-point rule for house number editing then I agree that they're using the wrong incentive model.

Re: your Wiki/Wikipedia rant...

Why such a wiki rant? Same thing to me like tissue vs Kleenex. Look on the top left of wiki page and you'll see a giant Wikipedia Logo. Your capital and large bold letters tell me you have too much time on your hands to worry about such a thing. I'll make sure I refer to it properly when communicating with you though...Ok?? ;)

You forgot to mention colored and italicized. :lol: Sorry about that. I thought adding all the various smilies would give the idea that I wasn't completely serious about it. But I will admit that one of the things I tend to be a bit anal about is using proper terminology. Sorry if it came across too strongly. :-)

Thanks again for adding the wiki references.

No problem. Good resources are good resources, eh? :D

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:03 pm
by SuperDave1426
Thanks for the Wiki pointer. Based on that, yea - they're using the wrong incentive model for those people (and I know there are a LOT of them) for whom point accumulation is most important. Maybe (hopefully?) they'll change that at some point in the future.

What you're saying about looking up business name vs looking up street addresses is pretty much what I was saying. Yes, Google's address marker takes precedence presently. I remember reading something, though, that indicated that the Waze guys will eventually be changing that, and it will be looking up addresses within the house number database first, and then going to Google when it can't find something there (one of the reasons why it's important to add house numbers when adding a new street, since they won't be importing that information any longer for roads that already exist or are newly created). I can't remember where I saw that posted, though.

I'm not sure if it was clear, but my concern was not that you were adding a Point Place called "Joe's Sushi Grill" at 1234 Anystreet Way, it was that a Point Place with nothing but 1234 Anystreet Way was getting added, either as a stand-alone for a home or next to the point you already created with "Joe's Sushi Grill." It sounds like I had misread the original posting, so color me relieved. :D

Edit: Hold on a second - that Wiki page is talking about points such as what you get in your App for the kind of Waze icon you show while driving, etc., and not actual edit credits (how many edits you've done, which is part of how ranks get assigned). I don't think I've seen anything anywhere which states how many edit credits you get for house numbers.... And that was the question I saw asked about in chat that the other person didn't know the answer to. That was what I was referring to when I said I don't know if the one-segment/one-credit rule applies when it's house numbers being added to a segment. It seems likely that it does, but I haven't seen anything definitive saying one way or the other.

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:11 pm
by SuperDave1426
Gobs of fun, to be sure. I've seen that page, and I'm still unsure of how they mean certain things. There are points you get for rank in the client, and edits that you get credit for towards your editor rank. To me, at least, the wording is just vague enough that I'm uncertain as to how editing a house number affects your edit count, regardless of what it does to your point count for your "rank" affecting what icon shows on the map when you're driving with the client active.

That's the part that I'm uncertain and unconvinced about. But be that as it may, if they're only giving one edit count for the street segment regardless of number of house numbers added, then they're definitely sending the wrong signals, since I've seen them on several occasion (and even champs have said things along similar lines) that they're not importing house number on established maps, so it's important that when you add a new street to be sure to also add house number. Since as we all know, a lot of people are primarily motivated by points, they're not providing a lot of incentive to perform a rather tedious task. I've also seen a number of Rank 5+ editors in chat complaining when they've run into an area where someone has set down Point Place markers on every house to mark the residence street with house addresses. There's absolutely nothing wrong (and it should be done) with having a house number on the street at a business as well as a Point Place marker (complete with address information in it) there identifying the business, but they sure don't want Point Place markers just marking every address on the street.... :-) (And yes, I realize that's not what you said you were doing; I'm just trying to be clear.)

--Dave

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:01 pm
by SuperDave1426
Looks really good! I certainly wouldn't mind the Nevada page ending up looking along those lines. :)

It's finals week for the summer semester, so I won't be able to do anything with it until after next week during the break before Fall, at which point I'll probably be plagiarizing that page a lot. :-)

Re: Address data available?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:30 am
by SuperDave1426
MojaveCactusMonkey wrote:Dave,

Lyon County NV resource for streets on GIS needs to be updated on the Nevada Wiki please...

The following is from Chad Foster the GIS analyst II from Douglas County which manages the GIS page for Lyon County:

http://douglasnvgis.info/lyon/public/

There is no direct access to addresses, but the official resources for the street names come from the Lyon County Assessors Office. For addresses once would have to look up the parcel numbers on the website we listed already on the wiki.

That baby works just like the map that Douglas County uses for their own county - you can in fact get street addresses by clicking on the parcel after selecting "Identify by point." I just checked it out and got a street address for a house.

Great find, MCM! Thanks for pointing that out.

Nevada resource page has been updated.

--Dave