How do you input addresses for roads with none currently?

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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby Riamus » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:18 am

Addresses were imported around the time that they were added to Waze. There won't be any future imports, so any missing addresses have to be added manually. This is especially true when adding new roads. I've also noticed missing addresses at the end of some cul de sacs. But then again, I've seen missing addresses in the middle of the street too. So I don't know if it's really an issue with the cul de sacs or just data that wasn't available during the import. Note that any import would be done through a database, so zoom level wouldn't have any effect. Also, the position of text in Waze won't necessarily line up with the position of text in any other GIS software. It's possible that some of the cul de sacs didn't have all of the houses built at the time the addresses were added to the GIS that we imported from.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby n8nagel » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:31 pm

yeah... getting back on topic

I am noticing something... still haven't ventured outside a mile or two of my neighborhood yet... too much to clean up now that I'm into it. but what I'm noticing is interesting... many of the cul de sacs already have street addresses but at least one will be missing at the end of each... and it's a royal PITA to get the driveway points all lined up so that WME will accept them without the ability to force.

I'm wondering if the addresses that exist were automatically generated at some point in time off GIS maps? It seems that where I'm finding that the addresses don't exist is if the GIS maps aren't zoomed in far enough they don't show because there's other text right on top of them.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:22 am

n8nagel wrote:I'm feeling like there's a lot of documentation out there that I'm not seeing, but I did actually read the editing wiki, honest.

Yep, there sure is. There's usually discussion in the forums before it makes it into the wiki. There is some info in the forums about it... somewhere, and @WazeMapping has tweeted it. But this is straying off House Numbers...
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby n8nagel » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:19 pm

Damn, wish I'd have known that before I started on them... got something to do I guess. None of the cul-de-sacs anywhere in the area had had the turns set so I didn't really have an example to follow. I'm feeling like there's a lot of documentation out there that I'm not seeing, but I did actually read the editing wiki, honest.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby Riamus » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:57 pm

Don't mark U-turns on dead end roads. They should be left as red. U-turns aren't really working to begin with and even if they were working, they should only be marked at actual U-turns. A dead end is automatically known to allow turning around and there are issues if you have them marked as U-turns.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby n8nagel » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:09 pm

Getting OT here, but your post was probably unintentionally useful to me... I wasn't really cognizant of "soft turns" before and your comment prompted me to look into it... now I've had to go back and re-edit areas that I thought were all under control save for the house numbers. Every cul-de-sac seems to not have had someone click on the u-turn, and there are a LOT of cul-de-sacs and dead ends... well, I still don't know how to get to 10K edits, but when I'm reviewing an area now I will probably be making a lot more edits than I was previously.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby Riamus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:59 pm

I can understand the frustration. And I didn't really take it as being pissy. There isn't really any need to apologize. It's entirely understandable. Unfortunately, I can't really offer any other advice. Personally, I'd see about working on the roads first so you can get enough points to be able to force addresses. Then you can do all of the addresses at once without needing to worry about what you can or can't do with them. One thing to keep in mind and maybe you meant this, but the mailing address is not always the right address to use. There is sometimes a mailing address that isn't really the street address. The street address is the one we'd want to add in there. That may be what you meant, but I wanted to point it out just in case.

If you want to post a permalink to an area that you're editing, I can point out some issues there if there are any to help you get an idea of what needs work. I was scrolling around the county and I didn't really see anywhere that didn't need work. If you start to see the types of problems in the map, it may reduce the frustration as you'll have a lot of things you can work on besides just the addresses. And even if addresses go live before all of them are updated, it will just fall back on Google or Bing addresses until they do get updated, so it won't harm anything. Those may not always be as accurate, but it wouldn't be any different than it is now, so there isn't any actual harm in having to use them for a little longer if necessary.

I know that isn't really what you want to hear, but I hope it's at least a help.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby n8nagel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:25 pm

I understand what you're saying and I see that my last reply might have come across as somewhat pissy (actually, rereading it, it's hard to read it any other way) and I apologize. I guess my frustration comes from the fact that Loudoun County is pretty much a debacle from a mapping and addressing standpoint. None of the commercially available mapping programs really do a good job because you have a mixture of 3-digit addresses and 22xxx addresses on many roads, and the latter often don't fit into the numbering scheme because they're on the wrong side, out of sequence, whatever, it's just impossible to input them at all without forcing in many cases. I know that there are a couple shopping centers where if I input the mailing address to a store I will end up a mile or more away, it's really frustrating. I *could* go through and do what I can, but then someone will just have to go behind me and fill in everything that I couldn't do later which will take just as much time.

I know that the Waze addresses aren't "live" yet, but I was hoping that we could get to the point where they're ready to go live, because it would be so nice to have a mapping program that is actually reliable...

I think I understand most of what you're suggesting as other edits, although I'll offer that at least in my area the roads are pretty good, it's the aerials that are out of date. That's actually how I got into mapping in the first place, I was one of the first people to drive on a new road after it opened and when I checked it out in the map editor I found that it had already been drawn but hadn't been properly connected to the roads that intersected it, next thing you know I'm playing around with the editor. I'm trying not to stray too far from the areas where I really do know the roads well and they for the most part seem to be pretty good, although I did just find something today that I need to go check out next time I go for a drive...
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby Riamus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:02 pm

I'm not sure the reason for forcing addresses other than perhaps that most addresses should not need it and letting someone new do it invites a random person to come in here and rearrange all of the addresses if they wanted to. With the addresses being "hidden" from normal view when editing, it's not easy to see when something is messed up. Of course, someone could just go through deleting addresses to basically the same effect, so I'm not really sure why there is the restriction. But with basically everything, your rank determines what abilities you have, so there aren't exceptions. Having exceptions means programming the system to allow roles to be set for individuals instead of ranks and that's more work to maintain. Maybe they'll consider dropping address forcing to a lower rank at some point, but I don't see them allowing for exceptions.

The best option is to just work on other edits in the meantime to get your rank up and to show that you can edit correctly and then apply for Area Manager if you want to more quickly reach rank 3. That still means getting around 5000 edits to show that you know what you're doing, though.

I can't imagine that every street has that problem with 2 sets of numbers making most addresses forced, so you should be able to find streets that aren't like that as well as doing other edits. It takes time to generate the edits, but every edit makes Waze better.

A quick scan of Loudoun county shows a lot of work needed done on the roads themselves. I see multiple streets with Unknown direction, multiple soft turns that need fixed, "roads" that aren't really there and need deleted, roads that don't match the aerials, extra junction nodes on road segments that aren't needed, etc. Just the quick scan shows probably 500-1000 points or more in just a small area that you could earn. Work on a larger area in the county and you could easily gain a fair amount of points without too much effort. It won't take long to get to level 3 that way.
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Re: How do you input addresses for roads with none currently

Postby n8nagel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:06 pm

no exceptions? that's going to make getting this area done difficult, as I'm having a hard time finding an area where I can input street addresses without forcing at least half of them. Also going to make racking up numbers of edits difficult as I can't save any of them! Maybe it's time to revisit that policy, although I'm sure there's a good reason for it being in place. But I can see someone getting frustrated and just not editing anymore because they don't have the ability to really do anything useful.
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