Page 1 of 1

TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:53 am
by mhh60
Earlier today I had a Discord conversation with a GC regarding an otherwise-skilled editor who often changes green TR arrows to red by mistake. One possibility is that the editor might have trouble distinguishing red from green due to colorblindness. Many people who are colorblind cannot distinguish red from green but are able to distinguish red from blue. ... blindness/ Electronics manufacturers have begun replacing green LEDs with blue LEDs to represent "on" for this reason.

I'd like to suggest that permissive TR arrows be changed from green to blue in WME for this reason. As an alternative, different arrow shapes could be used for each color.

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:38 am
by vince1612
While ON or OFF LEDs indications for electronics are one thing, I think indications for GO/ALLOWED or STOP/FORBIDDEN are another.

I have absolutely nothing against adapting the WME to differentiate things better, but IMHO this specific item is better suited for a script request rather than a change for all users, or should be optional in the WME settings tab.
The international standard for traffic lights is green/red and that probably makes it the least confusing colors for new editors opening the WME for the first time, regarding turns. So while it would definitely be helpful for a few, forcing blue arrows on everyone could risk being confusing to more people than it would actually help.

The forbidden turns are already distinguishable by having a small round "wrong way" sign symbol attached to them, so they're currently not 100% equal to allowed turns in shape. But I'm sure that could be improved as well if needed. I would just be more in favor of a script or opt-in option.

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:52 am
by trukkurt
I have sometimes thought about WME turn arrows and this green/red color-blindness (deuteranopia) issue that roughly 1 in 10 males of European descent apparently have.

I agree. It should best be an option in WME. I wonder how easy that would be for the WME devs to code such an option.

Waze would do well to accommodate deuteranopes for the benefit of all (such as fewer incorrect WME turn arrows that need to be fixed).

I suggest they run their color choices through a color-blindness simulator for all three color-blindness types before settling on the two choices that are released. There is a web site I used to frequent that did that. I don't recall the URL off-hand. I'll post it here when I think of it.

[Edit] The site I used (years ago) was and that site apparently no longer resolves to an IP address. :(

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:33 pm
by dfw_gis
I've had a moderate deuteranopia since at the earliest in college ( that's a few tree rings back ). It's something I've come to adapt to. It does force me to take a second look at edits before I sign off on them however hasn't really slowed me down.

Perhaps a simpler approach could be accomplished by a clever script-writer as opposed to incorporating it into WME itself? $0.02

* Full disclosure - I'm not a script writer :D *

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:51 pm
by iainhouse
The answer to "how easy is it for the devs?": very easy. The arrows aren't coloured in when drawing, they are pre-drawn in a composite PNG image for all the arrows. The page displays the appropriate part of this image rotated. If they replace that image file on the website, they would have new colours.
(14.94 KiB) Downloaded 84 times

The answer to "will Waze change it?": I'm going to guess the answer is almost certainly not. Once upon a time, the segments in WME were different colours. Each "neighbouring" road type (eg minor highway and major highway) was a sharply contrasting colour: so you would find it difficult to to confuse 2 similar segment types. HQ decided to change this to the current "dark-to-light" colour range, meaning that the closest colour to any segment type was the type of segment above/below it. They didn't care much about the complaints then and pretty-well completely ignored the needs of colour-blind users. The last word I heard was a Waze staff member at the Global Champs meetup who basically said "we're doing it, so live with it". Since then, they've done their best to remove contrast and visual cues from the WME UI, so I wouldn't hold my breath. ;)

As for fixing/changing it with a script: I'm not so sure. I am a script writer, but definitely an amateur one! As it happens, I've wanted to be able to add/replace an image on the website for a long time: the zoom bar my FixUI script re-creates throws errors in the background because the "+" and "-" images it needs are no longer loaded with the editor. So I can't say it's not possible - but it will take someone cleverer than me. If someone points me to a way to do it, I will happily incorporate the option into my script.

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:05 pm
by iainhouse
Update: I've had a chance to look at WME now. Whilst I still don't know how to mess around with the underlying image resource, it does look like I can do something with the displayed arrows. Using a CSS hue-rotate filter, I'm currently looking at WME with purple & blue arrows - and I can't remember which one is which. :lol:

So I should be able to add a feature to WME FixUI to change the arrow colours. It won't be quite as controllable as I would like, but it should be helpful for users with a colour blindness. Watch this space. ;)
(39.7 KiB) Downloaded 74 times

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:57 pm
by iainhouse
I found another website that simulates colour-blindness: ... simulator/. I uploaded the panel of arrows I posted above and had a play around. I agree that the problem is that it's very difficult to distinguish the red arrows from the green for editors with both protanopia and deuteranopia. Other forms of colour blindness don't look like they are a problem (other than achromatopsia/complete colour-blindness).

This makes it a much easier fix for me to implement. Rather than having to provide some sort of control interface to let users fiddle with the colours, I just have to change green arrows to blue and that will resolve the issue for protanopia and deuteranopia - with a simple on/off checkbox.

And that's what I've done. :mrgreen: The code is finished and will be in the next release of WME FixUI. I just need to finish off the feature for hiding the turn arrow popup.

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors  Topic is solved

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:23 pm
by iainhouse
The new version of WME FixUI is published, including the function to change green arrows to blue. Any feedback would be appreciated. :ugeek:

Re: TR colors for colorblind editors

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:08 pm
by dfw_gis
Thank you for that information. I've already made the UI change to the turn arrows and it really helps. If I encounter any issues with the script itself I'll reference them in the Addons, Extensions, Scripts forum.

If you need me to take a look at any aspect of the script, in particular, let me know. Always happy to help and ready to work.