Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby WeeeZer14 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:25 am

RodNav wrote:if there is sufficient historical speed data, why even consider the road type?


Scalability is why. If I am trying to find a route from NYC to LA across all of the US, it would take infinite resources to check every possible route. So we reduce the calculations required and only examine a subset of road types.

If roads have the correct type applied, this works well. But one single street segment in the middle of what should be a freeway will indeed cause problems. That is a map data issue though, and not a routing algorithm issue.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby Timbones » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:52 am

...it really doesn't want to use the A446 - Lichfield Rd either, though I can't see why. Maybe just need more people to drive that way.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby Timbones » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:50 am

There's definitely a propblem with the A513 by Weeping Cross, which I'll get sorted right away. There may be some other wrinkles along the ideal map that needs fixing.

In theory, if you keep using Waze, and keep driving the route you prefer, it will eventually start using it. YMMV.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby thefatveganchef » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:48 am

I have a ~ 64km drive each way to work, and I have several options on getting there. I have found that with leaving Waze on and driving those options Waze has learned the routes and time of those routes (all the routes I take all take about the same ammount of time because of distance and I normally don't drive durring rush hour) however one of the suggested routes it gives me as an alternitave is 4 miles of street driving vs 4 miles of highway driving because it knows that durring that time durring the day it is faster to take the surface route over vs the highway drive. You may just have to use waze out of navigation mode a few times on the surface roads to make it realise that the surface roads are quicker than the highways. That is granted your route doesn't have any map issues as suggested above. Once it learns that this is a faster alternitave durring rush hour it might just start navigating you that way too.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby Shaigan » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:02 am

On the "support" page, enter "penalty" and look at the automatic answer. All is clear for me to understand that smaller roads are taken into trip calculation.

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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby RodNav » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:30 pm

gettingthere wrote:
Shaigan wrote:On the "support" page, enter "penalty" and look at the automatic answer. All is clear for me to understand that smaller roads are taken into trip calculation.


Sure, but any routing penalty for lower classes of roads should be less than a 2 hour traffic delay!


Copied this from the automatic answer:
Code: Select all
Long Distances:
0-15 km - All road types are allows for routing.
15-20 km - All road types except Streets.
20-30 km - All road types except Streets and Primary streets.
30-200 km - Only Minor, Major, and Freeways.
more than 200 km - only Freeways.


Well, that makes it clear that on any route longer than 15km, Streets are ignored in routing. And anything more than 30km only highway and freeway types will be used. I think waze needs to seriously rethink this. In fact, if there is sufficient historical speed data, why even consider the road type? If a Street route is faster than a Freeway route, then it is faster.
Also, why a penalty for junctions? If waze knows the time taken to transit two junctioned segments, it shouldn't add another 5 seconds for the junction. Near my house I cross 3 very close junctions in about 9-10 seconds, but I guess waze must calculate that it is actually 25 seconds. (10 + (3x5))
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby RallyChris » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:20 pm

Take this list with a grain of salt.

Another thread mentioned this list, but real world examples showed that they were not hard fast rules.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby RallyChris » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:49 pm

Antmannz wrote:I have a feeling junction points also create quite a penalty when calculating routes.

I've seen where a misplaced additional junction point on a primary road caused Waze to route around back streets to avoid it (reducing the total number of junction points traversed).

In theory toll roads, freeways and motorways should have less junction points than standard streets (especially over a distance), thereby giving them quite a precedence when being chosen.


When they first started waze, we were told that a junction adds a 5 second penalty.

The last we saw, was that junction where there were no options don't have a penalty.

Again, this is black box and what they leak. And sometimes I think they misspeak themselves. So take the above with a grain of salt.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby RallyChris » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:31 pm

The routing code is a "secret formula". Which makes sense, since this not an open source project, but a business.

What we have been told about the behind the scenes working, is that waze will put a higher preference on higher and higher types of roads based on the distance of the route. (IE: as you go up in distance, the more and more it will prefer to use freeways only)

Waze makes it sound like they will not even consider some types of roads based on the distance, but real world examples make this seem to be incorrect.

More like (and my opinion) is that the longer the route, the higher the penalties waze puts on using a lower type of road, and maybe the more likely waze stop trying to make an alternative work.

Also putting a different spin on it, is if the traffic was discovered after the initial route was created. I've seen little data from waze on how this is handled. When does it start looking for alternatives? Does it just try to find how to get around the traffic or does it just recalc from where the traffic starts?
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:42 pm

I don't agree with using streets or other lower-grade roads for long trips at all. Fact of the matter is that 99% of the time it's always better to sit out regular congestion on the freeway or other large road than it is to try and detour it on surface streets.

I've tried this many times myself, largely because I easily get annoyed if I have to drive on any road at speeds significantly lower than the speed limit, and I've found unless there is some kind of acute incident - like an accident - that closes the entire road - in which case there would be a forced detour anyway - trying to detour highway traffic on surface roads has hardly ever gotten me to my destination faster, and in most cases it actually got me there later. Even for things like accidents, the nearby surface roads are going to be totally gridlocked with like half the other cars from the highway trying to do the same thing - and surface roads are just plain not designed to handle that kind of traffic.

The only way to really effectively be able to expect to cross urban areas at highway speed limits is during off-peak times, when traffic is light. Perhaps a more useful feature might be a delay estimate, in say minutes, of the traffic ahead on the route. A lot of the state highway signs that tell you how long it takes to go a certain distance are very useful in this regard and it might be nice to have a more-scaleable version of it in the navigation
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