Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby mirarkitty » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:31 am

kotatsu wrote:This is very much still a problem unfortunately.
...
So when the traffic is bad, I'm still using Co-Pilot, as it simply knows more routes. I also find that Co-Pilot is much more realistic with its estimated time of arrival when the traffic is bad.


I completely agree that this is a huge problem. If you can't trust Waze to give you a decent route, then there's no point in using it.

I can only suggest that you take the correct route as suggested by Co-Pilot but let waze run at the same time, to maybe, possibly, learn something. And try to fix or at least report map problems.

On the other hand, it can't be as simple as ignoring road types, I realized. When I were driving Krems-Graz in Austria (a trip for a few hours), it happily suggested an overland road as a shortcut - can't have been more than a Minor. Maybe it's gotten more stupid since August?
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:39 am

This is very much still a problem unfortunately. My route home includes a motorway which can often be badly congested, especially on Friday evenings. There are alternate routes available, at least 3 of them, and two of those are not on urban roads, but on A and B roads through the countryside.

Waze doesn't even know these roads exist as potential routes, and interesting tries desperately to route me back onto the motorway if I take them. (Even when it knows the motorway is a giant car park) These routes can be much quicker if the motorway is badly congested.

So when the traffic is bad, I'm still using Co-Pilot, as it simply knows more routes. I also find that Co-Pilot is much more realistic with its estimated time of arrival when the traffic is bad.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby mirarkitty » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:34 am

For myself, I've seen this: When driving to work from home, it avoids a service road shortcut (~1 minute). When driving to work from the nearby post office, it uses that shortcut. When driving home from work it's using that shortcut...

(I don't think I can recreate it: the grid has changed now.)
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby mirarkitty » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:32 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
Mirarkitty wrote:Really? Well, that explains a lot...
Why not use all the roads all the time?

Now, how Waze (re)considers street type when extreme slowdowns/accidents occur is another topic perhaps, but that's just me musing.


Well, I thought that was exactly the topic - that it only picks Freeways anyway, even though it takes 6 hours longer than the Minor next to it (2 vs 8 hours)?

It would make much more sense that it only used roads going faster than say 50km/h at all times the last month when searching the roadgrid than going on the road type.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:44 am

Mirarkitty wrote:Really? Well, that explains a lot...
Why not use all the roads all the time?

Possibly the computational complexity of considering all roads all the time would cause routing requests to take too long. Also, when routing long distances, it is highly unlikely you would choose to drive on a 2-lane dirt road or side-street next to the freeway rather than the freeway itself. It's rather common sense.

Now, how Waze (re)considers street type when extreme slowdowns/accidents occur is another topic perhaps, but that's just me musing.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby mirarkitty » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:33 am

WeeeZer14 wrote:
RodNav wrote:if there is sufficient historical speed data, why even consider the road type?


Scalability is why. If I am trying to find a route from NYC to LA across all of the US, it would take infinite resources to check every possible route. So we reduce the calculations required and only examine a subset of road types.


This is not true. You can start with the long roads (Freeway). Then do checks on the closer roads if there's a possibility for it to be faster. As soon as it's not faster, you can skip that entire path.

Besides, I'm sure my phone is happy to lend you a lot of computrons if you lack them on the server. I'm 100% sure the map of the nearest roads in a 1000km radius fits on my phone.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby mirarkitty » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:29 am

RodNav wrote:Copied this from the automatic answer:
Code: Select all
Long Distances:
0-15 km - All road types are allows for routing.
15-20 km - All road types except Streets.
20-30 km - All road types except Streets and Primary streets.
30-200 km - Only Minor, Major, and Freeways.
more than 200 km - only Freeways.


Really? Well, that explains a lot...
Why not use all the roads all the time?

I regularly go over 20km (Stockholm) and regularly gets routed on to bad roads (>Primary). This is stupid...?!?
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:10 pm

Waze tracks road congestion/speed in 10-minute intervals for every day of the week. With enough Wazer density and data made available by Wazers being on all the roads at some point in the past contributing to the data, Waze should be able to make the best calculation in most every circumstance. I think having ALL the data necessary is a good sized chunk of the problem in Waze knowing when it is OK to route off the main roadways.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:42 pm

I don't agree with using streets or other lower-grade roads for long trips at all. Fact of the matter is that 99% of the time it's always better to sit out regular congestion on the freeway or other large road than it is to try and detour it on surface streets.

I've tried this many times myself, largely because I easily get annoyed if I have to drive on any road at speeds significantly lower than the speed limit, and I've found unless there is some kind of acute incident - like an accident - that closes the entire road - in which case there would be a forced detour anyway - trying to detour highway traffic on surface roads has hardly ever gotten me to my destination faster, and in most cases it actually got me there later. Even for things like accidents, the nearby surface roads are going to be totally gridlocked with like half the other cars from the highway trying to do the same thing - and surface roads are just plain not designed to handle that kind of traffic.

The only way to really effectively be able to expect to cross urban areas at highway speed limits is during off-peak times, when traffic is light. Perhaps a more useful feature might be a delay estimate, in say minutes, of the traffic ahead on the route. A lot of the state highway signs that tell you how long it takes to go a certain distance are very useful in this regard and it might be nice to have a more-scaleable version of it in the navigation
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:54 pm

I think the error is rather general and not just restricted to the examples I gave in my initial posts. Tonight for example it was, yet again, total chaos on the M6 with mile after mile of virtually stationary traffic. Fool that I am I stuck with Waze, hoping it would offer me an alternative. (of which there were several) It never did.

I kept trying, right up until I was at the last possible escape route from traffic hell, but this is the only route Waze offered - https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Be ... =prev&z=12 That route was of course, terrible, and added a good 20 minutes to my journey.

It could have taken me this way instead - https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Be ... via=1&z=13

The purpose of Waze is surely to avoid traffic, and yet in my experience Waze is really rather terrible at avoiding traffic. It knows the traffic is there, the roads are marked red and coated with 'heavy traffic' and 'complete standstill' tags, but it's routing is so faulty it's incapable of doing anything about it.

It would be nice if it could be fixed, as Co-Pilot simply does a better job at what's important right now. In every other way - interface, speed, design etc - Co-Pilot is an unmitigated disaster, but it gets me home quicker.
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