Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby floppyrod84 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:19 pm

Hmm... Maybe this is one to give directly to Waze. Give them all of this information through the NanoRep section on the Support page. Their algorithms may need tuning or refining.


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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:54 pm

xteejx wrote:I completely agree.
So the problem isn't that there aren't reports on those Motorways, as you say there are plenty of wazers around Brum. Seems from the evidence it's the routing algorithm being stupid.
On a Friday evening, do you see automated waze reports (the coloured roads) on them motorways? Could be a lack of historical data if everyone just avoids it.


Everyone who lives in the midlands really should know how bad the traffic is here on Fridays, but there are still lots of Wazers stuck on the M6 and M42, all spawning 'complete standstill' and 'heavy traffic' reports at regular intervals. The roads are marked red too of course, with average speeds around 5mph.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:52 pm

xteejx wrote:Ok it's taken a good half hour, but there's nothing on any of those routes that is jumping out at me there.
My only suggestion would be, go the way you think is best with Waze running, let it keep rerouting and at the point where it starts following you the way you want, drop a Map Error report, as this will probably be the point where there is an error (if any).
It could be that even with the M6 and Toll backed up, Waze's algorithm isn't accounting for other possibilities because of the "importance" of using supposedly faster roads like motorways.
There are some URs in and around these routes, but I don't see any that would affect routing. I would say it's a lack of data, but looking at the number of GPS tracks around there, it's definitely not that.


Okay, thanks for trying. I'll have to go with Co-Pilot on Fridays as if I'm routed into the M6 traffic it will really spoil my evening. (to say the least!) But I'll fire up Waze periodically and see if I can see where the maps are going awry.

It does strike me as odd though that when I'm on the M6 Toll (and so about 2/3 through the journey and past all the complex stuff near Coventry) Waze only offers a single route home. The 'routes' button doesn't spawn any more, just one single route, and that route is always from the M6 Toll to the M6, regardless of how bad the traffic is. There are exits from the Toll to avoid the M6, such as - A34 and the A51, so even if Waze wants to give the M6 as an option, it still has two of it's three options free for these other routes, but it always ignores them.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby floppyrod84 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:47 pm

I completely agree.
So the problem isn't that there aren't reports on those Motorways, as you say there are plenty of wazers around Brum. Seems from the evidence it's the routing algorithm being stupid.
On a Friday evening, do you see automated waze reports (the coloured roads) on them motorways? Could be a lack of historical data if everyone just avoids it.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby floppyrod84 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:44 pm

Ok it's taken a good half hour, but there's nothing on any of those routes that is jumping out at me there.
My only suggestion would be, go the way you think is best with Waze running, let it keep rerouting and at the point where it starts following you the way you want, drop a Map Error report, as this will probably be the point where there is an error (if any).
It could be that even with the M6 and Toll backed up, Waze's algorithm isn't accounting for other possibilities because of the "importance" of using supposedly faster roads like motorways.
There are some URs in and around these routes, but I don't see any that would affect routing. I would say it's a lack of data, but looking at the number of GPS tracks around there, it's definitely not that.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:30 pm

xteejx wrote:Wow, nice work with a wealth of information to look at. How I wish more wazers were like this!
I've tried to grab the same route now (10:14pm Tues 17th July) and it's given me A4114, A45, A452, A446 and the M6 to Junction 14.
This is the 2nd route, the first one being pretty much the length of the M6 Toll which is 5 minutes faster according to waze.
I'll take a look at each of those "better" routes and see if there's anything missing or wrong on the waze side. Bear in mind, waze will try to keep to fast roads as much as possible, i.e. lock towards motorways BUT, have you tried this route with the "Avoid Highways" option on? It will avoid the M6 and the M6 Toll completely and may well give the A34 route as an option.
Remember you will need to press the Routes button if the one Waze gives you first off isn't the one you think is right. Especially on longer routes like this where there are a couple of choices with motorways, A roads and that.

Will look into the A34 first off, see if there's anything obvious causing the problem.


As I say, there's nothing wrong with Waze's routing on a normal day, it chooses the quickest roads. Friday evening is the killer though, it needs very special routing to avoid getting stuck in traffic hell. The M42 is largely blocked from J3A to J9. The M6 is completely blocked from J4 to J16. Any route using those roads is a total no-go on Friday evenings. I've tried the avoid highways option but I shouldn't have to keep fiddling with settings, Waze should just recommend the best routes at any given time, especially when it has a lot of traffic reports to draw upon. (there are a *lot* of Wazers around Birmingham)
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby floppyrod84 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Wow, nice work with a wealth of information to look at. How I wish more wazers were like this!
I've tried to grab the same route now (10:14pm Tues 17th July) and it's given me A4114, A45, A452, A446 and the M6 to Junction 14.
This is the 2nd route, the first one being pretty much the length of the M6 Toll which is 5 minutes faster according to waze.
I'll take a look at each of those "better" routes and see if there's anything missing or wrong on the waze side. Bear in mind, waze will try to keep to fast roads as much as possible, i.e. lock towards motorways BUT, have you tried this route with the "Avoid Highways" option on? It will avoid the M6 and the M6 Toll completely and may well give the A34 route as an option.
Remember you will need to press the Routes button if the one Waze gives you first off isn't the one you think is right. Especially on longer routes like this where there are a couple of choices with motorways, A roads and that.

Will look into the A34 first off, see if there's anything obvious causing the problem.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby gerben » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:41 pm

I checked the first half of the last route. TR's were OK, but in the beginning there are two locations where over a short distance, normal streets were used.
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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby dknight212 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:21 pm

In which case there might well be a mapping error as Roy said. Someone will look into it for you.

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Re: Does Waze consider smaller roads into it's routing?

Postby kotatsu » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:40 pm

xteejx wrote:Waze does love the M6 Toll and with good reason. It's at least 10-20% quicker than the M1 or M6, mainly because you have to pay for it.
If you can give us a rough start and end point, and the route you think Waze should take you, we can have a look and see if there are any map problems causing this.
FYI, you'd have got a quicker response from someone in the UK if you had posted in the UK subforum ;-)
Oh, waze does indeed use smaller roads, better than other SatNav apps I find, but the map must be correct, etc.

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Funnily enough it was traffic apocalypse on the M6 tonight, as seems to happen quite often now. Waze as usual wanted to get me onto the M6 Toll and then M6, despite there being a SIX HOUR delay. (yes, 6 hours) It offered no alternatives. (I'm not making this up, I promise)

I fired up Co-Pilot and it routed me onto the A34 and got me home in just under 2 hours. Slow, but rather better than 6 hours. I repeatedly tried Waze when on the M6 Toll to see if it knew the A34 existed, just out of curiosity. It failed every time, and only offered me a single route option - the M6, which was closed, and Waze knew it was a disaster as it reported an average speed of 2mph for many miles.

Getting back to the route I was talking about in my original post, these aren't my exact start and end points, but they'll give you the right idea.

This is the route Waze always wants to use to take me home -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=B4 ... via=1&z=11

On a Friday evening, the M42 is car park, as is the M6. It's a really, really, really terrible route. The alternatives it offers me are -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=B4 ... ra=ls&z=10

This one is even worse!

And this one -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=B4 ... a=1,2&z=11

This is also dreadful. The first of these three, on a Friday evening, would get me home in about 3 hours. The second would be more like 3 1/2 hours, and the third, also around 3 hours.

Compare this to co-pilot, which comes up with this route -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=B4 ... 3,4,5&z=12

It knows to avoid the heavy traffic on the A46 in south Coventry, it knows to avoid the M42 as best it can, and it avoids the M6 completely. It uses the toll of course, but if I don't want to pay up it will give me this route instead -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=B4 ... 3,4,5&z=11

It's a bit slower, but there's no toll involved.

This is just on Friday evening. At other times Co-Pilot will give me the same routes as Waze does, but as I've said, on Friday evening the usual routes are a disaster zone.

It really looks to me as if Waze just doesn't know the A34 or the A446 exist, as it will never offer them as valid routes, even when the alternatives have truly epic delays.
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