speed limit of the road on the map

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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby Scruffy151 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:24 am

realc4ever wrote:Waze can assume the speed limit is the same for the entire road, until someone else enters a new speed limit.


I know of a segement where the speed limit changes 2 or 3 times.

More in keeping with waze's style would be color coding the speedometer in relation to the average speed of the road. Then you would know if you are moving faster or slower than normal.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby whatever2015 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:46 pm

of course a driver should be paying to attention to the road and their driving and reading signs 100% of the time.
But who in reality behaves like this 100% of the time ?

All that is desired is an audible warning if we are driving over the posted speed limit. That is all.
Other nav apps do this.

With waze, whenever a speed limit sign is seen, someone can enter it into map. It's not that hard really. It's not any different than reporting a hazard or map issue.

Waze can assume the speed limit is the same for the entire road, until someone else enters a new speed limit.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby bgodette » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:21 pm

tgfathergoose wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
tgfathergoose wrote:What's the normal speed on a primary street? 35-45 mph? What's the speed on a minor highway? 55-65?

I've got hundreds of miles, maybe thousands, in rural areas of the state where the speed limit is 55+ on regular roads. Some I set to Primary Street just to keep a grid of collector-type roads more visible and for good routing. They won't be set to anything higher because they aren't functionally a highway of any kind.


I understand what you're saying, let's keep the app looking pretty. But strictly following the definitions in http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Road_Types_%28USA%29 are those rural 55+ roads acting more like a minor highway or a primary street?
They aren't classified as a highway of any type by CDOT, even on unofficial lists. They're primary county roads. How they're Typed doesn't matter until you get to "long" routes where the route pruning becomes even more aggressive.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby tgfathergoose » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:44 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
tgfathergoose wrote:What's the normal speed on a primary street? 35-45 mph? What's the speed on a minor highway? 55-65?

I've got hundreds of miles, maybe thousands, in rural areas of the state where the speed limit is 55+ on regular roads. Some I set to Primary Street just to keep a grid of collector-type roads more visible and for good routing. They won't be set to anything higher because they aren't functionally a highway of any kind.


I understand what you're saying, let's keep the app looking pretty. But strictly following the definitions in http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Road_Types_%28USA%29 are those rural 55+ roads acting more like a minor highway or a primary street?
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:34 am

tgfathergoose wrote:What's the normal speed on a primary street? 35-45 mph? What's the speed on a minor highway? 55-65?

I've got hundreds of miles, maybe thousands, in rural areas of the state where the speed limit is 55+ on regular roads. Some I set to Primary Street just to keep a grid of collector-type roads more visible and for good routing. They won't be set to anything higher because they aren't functionally a highway of any kind.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby tgfathergoose » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:24 am

Yep, wouldn't you know it, another AM higher than me just changed my county roads back to Primary Street and locked the roads down. This person always locks any change down, so no one else can fix problems that develop. These aren't primary streets by definition on the wiki; they fit more the category of Minor Highway. So, if waze does take into account the type of road when there are few datapoints, I'll NEVER get a closer actual arrival time.

What's the normal speed on a primary street? 35-45 mph? What's the speed on a minor highway? 55-65?
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby harling » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:30 pm

gordonski wrote:"Stick with the surrounding traffic" is a nice advice. Usually 33% drive slower than the limit (e.g. trucks), 33% ignore the limt and the remaining 33% obey to it...

If a speed limit has been set according to accepted traffic engineering principles (at least in the U.S.), 85% of drivers would be driving at that speed of slower, in the absence of enforcement. In practice, this standard is almost never used, with speeds almost universally set lower due to political (or economic) considerations. :roll: That said, people have been able to get by for decades without navigation devices to tell them the speed limit. Signs are not posted any less frequently than they used to be. If you don't see the first sign, pick a speed somewhere in the middle of the crowd until you see the next one.
Concerning the "other GPS navsets use speed limits for eta calculation" argument: The ones I know use the lower value of average speeds based on road type (fixed values for each type of road) and speed limit. So when you are able to always drive the maximum allowed speed, you'll arrive sooner than expected. Waze does not need that because it has "live averages". Still, indicatiting speed limits would be a helpful feature for above reasons.

The combination of actual speed limit, and assumed speed based on road type, still has only a tenuous connection to real-world speeds. A nav product that -needs- to know speed limits in order to estimate transit time, has no choice but to gather, input and maintain that data. With actual driving data, Waze has zero need of speed limit data; thus to undertake gathering, incorporating and maintaining that data solely for a "nice to have" feature would be a poor investment of limited resources. Maybe Waze will have speed limits some day--but hopefully not until all the higher-priority issues have been addressed.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby gordonski » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:15 am

geoffb wrote:With all due respect, why would we depend on Waze for something we can (and should) do as drivers: pay attention to the road. The whole purpose of Waze is to supplement us with tools we cannot ascertain on our own (traffic jams, better routes, etc.). I understand those who mentioned that some roads are poorly marked, but as Alan said earlier: if drivers cannot determine the speed, how can we expect it to get into Waze?

If all drivers behaved like they should, there would be no need to report speed traps or police either. A driver should also be able to recognize dangers on the road and react appropriately without using a smartphone. If we all behaved the way we should, we could remove all the reporting stuff from waze except for traffic jams.
However all the things we can report make it easier for drivers to be aware of the current situation and upcoming situations and so would speed limit indications.
Entering a freeway you have to watch traffic ahaed, traffic from behind, traffic on the left, direction signs (when driving in unfamiliar areas) and speed limit sign. The latter have the least priority for me. It has happend to me, that made my way onto the freeway, watching my front window, my mirrors and over my shoulder, but had totally missed the limit sign. "Stick with the surrounding traffic" is a nice advice. Usually 33% drive slower than the limit (e.g. trucks), 33% ignore the limt and the remaining 33% obey to it. Can be hard to tell who is who sometimes.
Where does the data come from, when drivers fail to realize the speed limit? Well, driving in unfamiliar areas Waze tells me the right way to go although I don't know jack about turn restrictions, driving directions, etc. Where does that data come from? Guess there's someone who does know... ;)

Concerning the "other GPS navsets use speed limits for eta calculation" argument: The ones I know use the lower value of average speeds based on road type (fixed values for each type of road) and speed limit. So when you are able to always drive the maximum allowed speed, you'll arrive sooner than expected. Waze does not need that because it has "live averages". Still, indicatiting speed limits would be a helpful feature for above reasons.

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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby tgfathergoose » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:41 am

Here's the real problem: waze really doesn't do a good job computing speed limits based on the GPS points. I just moved to a new area, and I've seen waze be half an hour off on my arrival time at my house. I can watch as I drive down the road, at the posted speed limit, and see the time get shaved off. How can waze route me the fastest way when the times are so bad? I know that going one way might save me five minutes (and cost me $4 in tolls), but waze says it would save half an hour? That might be worth it, except it's blatantly WRONG! Regardless of what they say, there must be some sort of default value for each type of road for them to even try to compute times on roads less frequently traveled. I'd like to know what those are.

There are several county roads I travel that, prior to my edit, were listed as city streets. Roads are paved, meet the definition of a minor highway, with speed limits on these roads of 55. Maybe if we could keep these at minor highways and not primary streets or just streets I'll get a better estimate on getting places in my new metropolitan area.
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Re: speed limit of the road on the map

Postby geoffb » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:40 am

With all due respect, why would we depend on Waze for something we can (and should) do as drivers: pay attention to the road. The whole purpose of Waze is to supplement us with tools we cannot ascertain on our own (traffic jams, better routes, etc.). I understand those who mentioned that some roads are poorly marked, but as Alan said earlier: if drivers cannot determine the speed, how can we expect it to get into Waze?
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