Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby tonestertm » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:43 am

CBenson wrote:I really haven't encountered any such mass deletions. But my experience is that URs that are closed as solved without any edit to the map that actually solves the problem does not correlate with the rank of the editor that closes the UR.
Lucky you! :) Around here it happens, on average, about 2-4 times a month. Most times it's limited to only about 10-25 closures, perhaps because we typically get messages sent right away (responding in closed conversations might help) but occasionally a huge swath of the metropolis is swept clean, including URs with active conversations.
Not sure if you were implying this, but I never claimed that the "Solve" problem was limited to any particular rank, though I would say that there seems to be less of it from "trail-hardened" 3's and above. I was simply stating that, when this happens, that is most often the course of events.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby bart99gt » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:43 am

I've had it happen to me on a couple of occasions, one morning my inbox will be full of "an issue you were following was closed" e-mails from where a lower level editor has gone through and closed a bunch of URs...some of which had active conversations going on in them.

I think the nag message has helped with that some, but you still have others which just close them indiscriminately for the points. As long as Waze has the bonus points out there for resolving 50 URs, you're going to have this problem.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:00 pm

bart99gt wrote:As long as Waze has the bonus points out there for resolving 50 URs, you're going to have this problem.

I used to suspect that was the problem too, but in the two most egregious cases the editor didn't stop at 50. In the more recent case, I've heard the editor was active outside my editing area as well (where I can't see the URs) and the deletion toll may have been more like 300-500 URs in one day. And, like I said, this editor responded quickly and very contritely to a PM. I really don't think it was a point hound, at least not in this case, just someone unclear on the concept.

Limiting the closing of URs to Rank 2+ would have given this editor time to understand by example while preserving the integrity of the UR system.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby CBenson » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:09 pm

tonestertm wrote:Lucky you! :) Around here it happens, on average, about 2-4 times a month. Most times it's limited to only about 10-25 closures, perhaps because we typically get messages sent right away (responding in closed conversations might help) but occasionally a huge swath of the metropolis is swept clean, including URs with active conversations.

Appears we are lucky. Got a PM from an editor last night about some URs that I asked if could be closed due to age. He said he just moved to LA and had lost track of some of the URs he had attempted to start conversations in back out here. But he had already noticed in LA "some inconsiderate person just closes whatever they feel like closing." So I guess this is more of problem in some areas than others.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby Firree » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:29 am

Why not add or modify the popup message when someone tries to close an UR? If what DwarfLord is saying is correct-- that level one editors are closing URs just because they don't know any better, wouldn't that adress a large portion of this problem? There is that popup dialog that says "The report is still pending questions..." so why not add, change or modify so that it better addresses and prevents this practice?
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby Helgramite » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:13 am

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Last edited by Helgramite on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:34 am

Another idea might be to allow an editor to take ownership of a UR.
If an editor begins working the problem, have a flag set that would allow other editors to jump into the conversation, but only to allow the "claiming" editor (or one of higher level) to actually close the report.... maybe have it "unlock" after 90 days of inactivity or without re-confirmation.

I've closed a number of "stale" reports that have been sitting out there for months, and the last message was "If you do not respond this report will be closed in 10 days" or 7 days or whatever (and that time is long passed)... I try to look for those to see if there is anything around that might have been missed, and also to clean the area up. There's just so much out there here in LA that I can see some of these reports being forgotten about.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:11 am

Helgramite, thanks for the careful and thoughtful post. I am in complete agreement with you that the current rewards system works against the integrity of the maps and of problem handling. I for one would shed no tears if point awards for submitting and working URs ended.

Still, I am far from certain that would solve the bulk of the problem. Surely some editors are indeed just scalping points and I agree we would be better off without their "help". But I am convinced that many others, including some of those who cause the massive disruptions we're talking about in this thread, simply don't know what they are doing.

So, maybe a three-part approach:

  • End counterproductive point motivators;
  • Add damage control by preventing Rank 1 editors from closing/deleting URs; and
  • Expand training materials for new editors.

In fact I've been working on that last item, but to avoid sounding like a promoter I will not mention the details again here :)

The first two items would of course require Waze engagement and agreement. After several months reading these forums I get the sense that is easier said than done, which is a shame.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby radjax » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:44 pm

So what if the UR's are Stagnant.?

what i see often is an editor clicks on multiple UR's and regardless of the message from the user ask a ton more questions from the reporter.
No action is taken to resolve the issue.
When and if that reporter doesn't respond and the UR sits there for months with no activity and clutters the screen.
Per "etiquette.." no one is supposed to act on these. that is crazy?

Its proven that if you dont get a reply within 7 days the chances greatly decrease.
or you will get even less info as they dont remember the details.

Yes if someone just clicks NEW UR's and closes them as solved without doing anything it is a big issue, however this "owenership' and unwillingness to close UR's after making changes in WME is also a problem.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby coontex » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:38 pm

radjax wrote:So what if the UR's are Stagnant.?

what i see often is an editor clicks on multiple UR's and regardless of the message from the user ask a ton more questions from the reporter.
No action is taken to resolve the issue.
When and if that reporter doesn't respond and the UR sits there for months with no activity and clutters the screen.
Per "etiquette.." no one is supposed to act on these. that is crazy?

Its proven that if you dont get a reply within 7 days the chances greatly decrease.
or you will get even less info as they dont remember the details.

Yes if someone just clicks NEW UR's and closes them as solved without doing anything it is a big issue, however this "owenership' and unwillingness to close UR's after making changes in WME is also a problem.


In my opinion if a UR is around 14 days old you can contact the editor that responded to the report to see if he is still working on it or not. If he does not give you a response in a few days then take it over . In my case I have to leave sometimes ad do not have fast enough internet to even access the map so if they are sitting close them but that is just me. If it is something with a conversation between the editor and reporter ask them if you can help.

I have made mistakes in the past even closing out a UR that I thought I was clicked in but it was someone else's because they were so close. The main thing is to help out when you can.


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