Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:48 am

For the most part, I agree with you, except for a few details...

The map is "mature" but there is a LOT of crap left over from the basemap imports... and these can cause problems. I've found basemap segments crossing over cinderblock walls and connecting a shopping center parking lot with an apartment driveway that is gated... and the whole thing is tagged as a street and routable, never been touched by a human editor. This is in a saturated area like Los Angeles where we have hundreds of editors. So no, the map is far from perfect even after 5 years.

New editors adding roads not normally mapped by Google or Navtech create a secondary situation, whereby Waze will route to a Google pin using the nearest road to those GPS coordinates. Is the Google pin for your house in your back yard? That's fine, until someone maps that alley behind Home Depot that's only 30ft from your pin... now Waze will route your visitors to the back of the store and not your driveway.
Being aware of this, we can sometimes take advantage of it if we for some reason WANT to force someone to a destination of the than the named address road, but it presents huge problems for airports, golf courses, etc.... These all show up as URs.

Yes, as discussed in other threads, all rank of editors sometimes forget that the word "MINIMUM" is in front of "7 Days" on the flowchart and in the Wiki. Local policy will dictate how long OVER 7 days is a good minimum... but the standard is that it is a minimum, not a maximum.

On the reminder messages to the reporter, that bites both ways. We want responses, but we also don't want to be seen as nagging. When the editor posts a comment, the reporter gets an email and a note in the app. If they don't respond, it's because they don't want to, not because they didn't get the note.
A reminder to the editors is not a bad idea, but we have discussed the idea of "locking" a UR to the first editor to work the report and it goes against Waze's ideas of keeping things "open"
Map lock levels are there to protect the map (that they paid for), but beyond that, they want things to be as open and welcoming as possible.

Of course, if an editor can see that much research or field work is going to be needed, he can always post "Please hold open for Editor769" in the comments and most other editors will respect that.
-- Rich
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:13 pm

Poncewattle wrote:Don't laugh. That was my impression of what it was on my first day editing. The second day I went over the wiki again and saw the relevant page and went back and fixed my red PLR (where I work). But hey, I at least did THAT right after reading not to draw ever parking lot road in!

(Unfortunately, it took me a few more days to learn I had to submit an unlock request to get that PLR tied into a rank 3 road.... Sigh....)

My first editing experience was fun.
I began editing because I wanted to be able to assist Tonestrtm with the closures around the I-5 construction in Burbank (where I work).
This was just after I got home from a trip to visit my parents, so I had huge areas of New Mexico oil field with a bunch of dirt roads with which to experiment.
When I saw that roads that I modified did not change color, but new roads did, I started comparing the two and found the "Name" fields.
Still didn't know about scripts or the keyboard shortcuts, so I was manually enabling all turns on all approaches, and I probably created a couple of dead end loops as I did not have Validator.
But it gave me a place to learn where I couldn't do any damage to the routing of the map.

I should go back to that field and see if I left any mistakes that haven't been caught by the local editor.
-- Rich
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:04 pm

mdavidsonjr wrote:
Taco909 wrote:
mdavidsonjr wrote:I'll admit that I did a few in the first couple of days of editing then I found the wiki after looking at some of the other hundreds of UR's in the houston area at the time. Now a days we can't keep up with them .

Of course, we all did... but when called on it, we stopped or figured it out on our own. We responded to PMs without being snarky, we stopped closing URs without comments, we stopped creating red roads, we stopped fully populating parking lots, etc...

One of the most creative excuses for leaving red roads I've seen was from an L1 who put 2 and 2 together on the red roads and came up with "5"... The road is a different color on the map + The error in the top corner says "Unconfirmed" = "That is a flag for a higher level editor to review and approve the edit" :lol:
Okay, yes, it does tend to draw our attention, but not for the reason you think ;)


I am wondering if enabling pms and an email address was not a choose if this might help with getting in touch with some of the new editors that are doing this. If you had to supply a way to contact them in order to edit then then this might get there attention when they start getting repeated emails.

This should not be to hard for waze to implement but I am no programer so I do not know. Something needs to be done though. I appreciate the help from the ones that do it right or even just ask a question. I do not want to own the UR's but it gets to point sometimes that some of them close the UR out in just a few days from the last comment when there is a problem in the area that is being worked on. It's not right .

They can't log into the editor without creating an ID on the forum.
That requires an email for verification.

The PMs that I have sent that have been ignored have not been rejected due to the user having the option set that users can't PM them... they are simply sitting in my out box where they remain until they are opened, or they have been "picked up" (opened) and not replied to.
And a number of these messages have had a line at the end that failure to respond or correct the issue will result in suspension of editing ability, and they have been referred to the CM as my L5 AM has only been able to make contact with one of the 4 or 5 problem editors.
-- Rich
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:39 pm

mdavidsonjr wrote:I'll admit that I did a few in the first couple of days of editing then I found the wiki after looking at some of the other hundreds of UR's in the houston area at the time. Now a days we can't keep up with them .

Of course, we all did... but when called on it, we stopped or figured it out on our own. We responded to PMs without being snarky, we stopped closing URs without comments, we stopped creating red roads, we stopped fully populating parking lots, etc...

One of the most creative excuses for leaving red roads I've seen was from an L1 who put 2 and 2 together on the red roads and came up with "5"... The road is a different color on the map + The error in the top corner says "Unconfirmed" = "That is a flag for a higher level editor to review and approve the edit" :lol:
Okay, yes, it does tend to draw our attention, but not for the reason you think ;)
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:27 pm

HavanaDay wrote:These types issues should be addressed with your SM (if there is one) and/or your RC.

They are being handled, but the problem is that once the L1 closes the report, the damage is done and permanent unless editors are given the ability to reopen the report. That's why I feel that we need to modify the routines so that the closure does not go live until it has been reviewed and approved... same as with RLC reports.

The report disappears from the map after a week or so
The reporter can no longer respond from the app
The reporter received an email that their issue was solved or could not be resolved... that's going to be maddening to them when the issue repeats the next time they make that drive.

Waze needs to remove the rewards for closing reports and map edits pure and simple. They jump into the editor wanting the "candy" and they do it without ever reading the Wiki and sometimes even logging into the forum, and they are creating some serious issues.

This is a constant and ongoing problem in large markets like Los Angeles, and there is a LOT of valuable data out there in our blanket of red reports that can be determined by examining the clusters even if the reporters don't provide details and are unresponsive.

The secondary issue is that I can only feed so many of these issues to my AM and CM... They have a lot on their plate and all of it takes time.
-- Rich
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:42 am

Okay....

After fighting this issue (among others, including unconfirmed roads and populated parking lots) with L1s for the last month, I'm even more in favor of... first... GET RID OF THE FREAKING "50 MAP PROBLEM" CANDY, and in restricting L1 so that when they believe they are ready to close a UR, it is a "soft closure" and requires confirmation by a 3+
I even see this from time to time with L2 editors (the L1s get there quickly with their PLR additions)

Had a HUGE area of SoCal peppered in the last 24 hours with dozens of URs closed without comment by one user.
Sent a PM, he swore up and down that he commented but forgot to send it when he closed them.
He closed a number as "solved" on roads that were not editable to him.
He claims he was following the instructions of an L5 in removing reports more than 7 days old... yet I found one he closed in 4 days.
-- Rich
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:22 pm

Helgramite wrote:My very brief exposure as an AM has my daily routine consumed with tracking down an ever changing list of L1 bad actors peppering the map with speed cameras, places/landmarks, PLR confabulations, and either snarky UR comments or outright closing URs with no investigation or comms.

My challenge this week is an editor was improperly closing URs two weeks ago as an L1, before he discovered Chrome Extensions and is now an L3 with more access but no greater self-control.

I certainly hear you on the "bad actors" though our peppering of cameras is typically the same people who pave roads but have no clue that the editor exists... often "usa_xxxx" members.

But more importantly, how did someone move from L1 to L3 in 2 weeks? L3 and above require manual review and promotion and is not automatic. I'd shoot a note to your RC or CM if this editor is causing problems.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:35 am

Helgramite wrote:My Master of the Obvious moment for Friday ... It would be easier to just NOT display URs to Level 1s. You cant close what you cannot see. Have the L2 upgrade require an AM check of your edits.

They need the exposure and ability to work them, limited as their abilities may be.
They also need the exposure to how higher level editors are handling them WRT canned messages, back and forth, ultimate resolution, etc...
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:30 pm

mdavidsonjr wrote:It would be a lot better if they could reply to an email. We might get a lot more responses if this were an easier process then doing this through the app or the editor. Most people want things simple.

Personally, I think this is a great idea, but I suspect that Waze does not do this out of privacy concerns, both for the editor and users. I'm not familiar with privacy laws outside of the US, but I understand some countries are quite strict... it would have to be routed similarly to the way forum post and PM notifications are handled, but with the body of the message included, and the kicker, a unique traceable ID tag so the editor's response would go back to the reporter's email without revealing any personal information to either party.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:18 pm

Thank you for your report and for taking the time to visit the forum.
I believe the intended design is for the reporter's response to go through the app, but as you said, it is not that obvious the way the email is structured (and the emails that I get, the link to the map is not even clickable).
Once on the live map, if you are not in editor mode, then you can click the "Edit map" button at the lower left. From there, open your user report, and once that is open, open the "Conversation" option.
I might be wrong but that may already be open when you follow the link, since it appeared that you could read the reply from the map.
So once there, look down at the bottom of the conversation box and you'll see a small box with a "Send" button next to it, similar to a chat response window. This is where you can directly input your reply from a desktop device. I do not believe that option is available from a mobile device.
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