Unconfirmed turns at dead ends  Topic is solved

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Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby bwawsc » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:27 pm

Using the Validator script, I can see many "unconfirmed turns" - especially at dead ends of streets or roads. For example:
2014-10-10_13-11-04.png
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I have been trying to resolve these, and I find that by adding a road at the end, selecting the original segment, and confirming the turn onto the new segment, then deleting the new segment and saving, I can make the little purple balloon go away. I'm happy to do this, being OCD - but I wonder:

    1. What impact on the map if they are not removed (slow rendering, etc.)?
    2. What causes them in the first place?
    3. Is there an easier way to clean them up?
    4. Why doesn't the map engine just clean them up automatically?

Does anyone have any wisdom to offer about this?
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby bwawsc » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:28 pm

DwarfLord wrote:Since you are using Validator, you might want to take advantage of the absolutely incredible internal documentation system it has. When you select a flagged error, you are provided links to the relevant documentation that you can simply click and there you go.

Cool. Thanks.
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby bwawsc » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:33 pm

I'm glad I asked. Now I'm left with the Toolbox showing me all these flags that I shouldn't touch, and a small number that I should. Can the Toolbox be made to distinguish between the situations and just show the "real" ones? Or should I just disable this feature of Toolbox and go with Validator? I guess for now, I'm going with that...

And I don't really understand, either, why it's so difficult to add a "make a legal U-turn" instruction to Waze - most navigation apps I've seen have this instruction and use it when a user has gotten themselves into a situation where they need it (e.g. accidentally turned into a dead-end road or driven past their destination), or when the destination is most easily reached by driving past it on a divided road and then turning around to come back to it.
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby crazycaveman » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:27 am

I would like to point out that the highlights in the screenshot are from toolbox and not validator. Validator no longer gives any highlights for unconfirmed turns on dead-end nodes. There was recent discussion on this in the toolbox thread recently and it is best not to mess with unconfirmed dead-end turns in any way, for the reasons taco stated. If it really bugs you, turn off the toolbox highlights and just rely on validator to catch them. As far as qw deleting information, I can say it does not. If a turn had a tbtr, it will still have it after a qw. Not sure about other days associated with turns, but I'm sure they would be safe, too.
[ img ][ img ] [ img ][ img ][ img ]
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby crazycaveman » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:05 pm

bwawsc wrote:I'm glad I asked. Now I'm left with the Toolbox showing me all these flags that I shouldn't touch, and a small number that I should. Can the Toolbox be made to distinguish between the situations and just show the "real" ones? Or should I just disable this feature of Toolbox and go with Validator? I guess for now, I'm going with that...


Here's the post explaining why it will stay as it is in toolbox: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 94#p917494 The short version is highlights exist to show things that might be/cause problems, not that they are problems in and of themselves
[ img ][ img ] [ img ][ img ][ img ]
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends  Topic is solved

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:48 pm

An unconfirmed turn is one that has never been adjusted by an editor since the junction in question came into being. Validator flags these because they may or may not be correct; they have never been explicitly modified.

The impact at junctions can be dramatic if the unconfirmed turns are red, i.e., restricted, which can happen by default at junction creation time. At dead ends, not so much.

You can clear all such issues at a junction node, including a dead-end junction node, by selecting the node (the junction node itself, not an adjacent segment), pressing 'q' and then pressing 'w'. This incantation clears everything and then enables everything. At a dead end it is harmless and removes unconfirmed turn indications.

But you must be very careful with qw at proper junctions, because it will obliterate all existing information for that junction node. What's red, what's green, timed restrictions, u-turns (though we aren't using those yet) -- wiped out, all of them. So you never want to go wild with qw in areas that have seen care and attention. (EDIT: I wasn't quite right -- 'q' does set time-based turn restrictions to red, however, when 'w' is pressed the original TBTR data are restored and the arrow goes yellow, not green. Nevertheless the 'qw' incantation must be used with great care.)

The map engine probably could clear these automatically at dead ends since they don't really help anything. Elsewhere that would be a bad idea. However such functionality probably isn't high on Waze's to-do list.

(EDIT: Since you are using Validator, you might want to take advantage of the absolutely incredible internal documentation system it has. When you select a flagged error, you are provided links to the relevant documentation that you can simply click and there you go.)
Last edited by DwarfLord on Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:29 am

Taco909 wrote:
DwarfLord wrote:An unconfirmed turn is one that has never been adjusted by an editor since the junction in question came into being. Validator flags these because they may or may not be correct; they have never been explicitly modified.

Other way 'round now.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... 605&zoom=7

The segments that do not show unconfirmed turns are "original" from when I drew them and named them.
The segments that show unconfirmed have had their "B" nodes moved after the initial save.

Ummm...I'm not following...I'm saying an unconfirmed turn is a turn that has never been adjusted by an editor since the junction in question came into being. That is, if you pick up an A or B node and disconnect it and then reconnect it somewhere else, you have just brought a new junction into being but have not modified a turn yet. So, that new junction has unconfirmed turns. At least, that's my understanding of how it works... :?
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:54 am

Taco909 wrote:For the dead-end U-turns, we have been asked specifically not to mess with them.
Some show unconfirmed u-turns, some do not... but since we have lost the u-turn arrow, we have lost the ability to tell which way the turn restriction is set, and attempts to clear it may result in it being disabled (which is likely happening with your procedure)
In June or July, we were asked not to disable dead-end u-turns, and shortly after, the ability to change (and even observe) these turns was eliminated.

You know, I could never make any sense out of that request. They ask us not to do something, but what, 5% of editors read the forums? Stuff is going to happen. Then they prevent us from seeing the status of dead-end U turns, so if an uninformed editor does change that status, we won't know and can't repair it (we don't have any way of repairing it even if we did know, but that's another topic).

If the WME-standard-issue "qw" shortcut keys applied on a dead-end junction node actually have the potential to damage the Waze map -- and not only that, to damage it invisibly in a way that the volunteer editing community can't possibly detect and that Waze won't tell us about -- that's...that's...oh, be nice, DwarfLord, be nice...

I am far from convinced that "qw" on a dead end junction node is anything but totally harmless. Is there any concrete information otherwise?
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:29 pm

crazycaveman wrote:As far as qw deleting information, I can say it does not. If a turn had a tbtr, it will still have it after a qw.

Quite so! I regret my misunderstanding. 'q' will set a time-based turn restriction red, and there is nothing about the appearance of that red arrow that betrays its inner secret...when 'w' is pressed the arrow is restored to its former glory as a TBTR.

Taco909 wrote:The WME-issued "qw" no longer clears unconfirmed restricted turns.

I can't reproduce this. See screenshots, attached.


Screen shot 2014-10-11 at 7.15.03 AM.png
Initial state
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Screen shot 2014-10-11 at 7.15.33 AM.png
After 'q' and save
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Screen shot 2014-10-11 at 7.15.47 AM.png
After 'w' and save
(64.16 KiB) Downloaded 471 times
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Re: Unconfirmed turns at dead ends

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:53 pm

I'm not a Toolbox expert and will leave that question for others.

On the other topic...No, I can't believe either that an app ostensibly designed for dealing with urban congestion is incapable of asking for a U-turn. I can't believe that the WME provides an "allow U-turn" toggle on millions of junctions, but that we must never enable it for fear of bad driver experience. And I can't believe that Waze does not seem to consider this issue a massively high priority, or apparently any kind of priority at all. But there it is. :shock:
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