Why never use copyrighted maps as source. (clarified title)

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Re: Why not to use copyrighted maps as source. (clarified ti

Postby CBenson » Fri May 31, 2013 2:48 pm

See Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Serv. Co. Inc., 499 U.S. 340 (1991) cited earlier in the thread for the proposition that facts aren't protected by copyright in the US.
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Re: Why not to use copyrighted maps as source. (clarified ti

Postby mapcat » Fri May 31, 2013 3:22 am

And also remember that there is simply no good reason for getting information for Waze maps from competitors when many legal options exist.
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Re: Why never use copyrighted maps as source. (clarified tit

Postby tonestertm » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:50 pm

Edit: Misposted in wrong forum. :(
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby Machete808 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:14 pm

daknife wrote: based on a day of reading past case law including the linked case and other cases, based on extensive precedence and current case law severely limiting copyright protection of maps (as noted in my linked case) I see no liability for Waze. Though IANAL, I do enjoy reading legal code and case law.


This is a U.S. District Court decision, which wouldn't really apply broadly. Are there any Supreme Court rulings in what you've read?
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby CBenson » Fri May 31, 2013 1:27 am

Just remember that US law doesn't apply to much of what waze does.
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby Daknife » Thu May 30, 2013 11:52 pm

BTW just just found this. False names are NOT copyrightable IP.
Copying of copyright traps consisting of "false facts"
does not constitute infringement.
See
Nester's Map & Guide Corp.
v. Hagstrom Map Co.
, 796 F. Supp. 729, 733 (E.D.N.Y. 1992) ("To
treat `false' facts interspersed among actual facts and
represented as actual facts as fiction would mean that no one
could ever reproduce or copy actual facts without risk of
reproducing a false fact and thereby violating a copyright.");
Nimmer, supra
, § 13.03[C]. The traps here easily fit the "false
fact" mold. As noted above, the names of geographic features may
not be copyrighted; thus, fictitious names may not be
copyrighted. Similarly, the existence, or non-existence, of a
road is a non-copyrightable "fact."
from page 19 of This court decision regarding maps.

So traps can apply to how existing streets are laid out (google splitting many roads that don't qualify for splitting under Waze's guidelines) but any information presented as factual is not protected by copyright if the information is false. So again the previous position put forward in this thread that mass copying of Gmaps, using scripts or direct overlay tools violates, occasionally referring to Google to verify a street name or layout even if the information included is a trap is not infringement on Waze's part, particularly as Waze imposes no direct supervision or control over the individual editors. Waze has made a good faith effort to provide adequate editing tools to eliminate the need to directly copy from Google, so how can it be found liable for the actions of non-employee, non-supervised user editors, based on a day of reading past case law including the linked case and other cases, based on extensive precedence and current case law severely limiting copyright protection of maps (as noted in my linked case) I see no liability for Waze. Though IANAL, I do enjoy reading legal code and case law.
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby davipt » Thu May 30, 2013 10:58 pm

Someone needs to tell me how to "fix" the google maps in Portugal. Just on my daily drive I can count a dozen major mistakes, ranging from stupid errors on complex junctions that routes through illegal u-turns instead of just going straight, to sending to illegal freeway ramps that are reserved for bus, from missing new roads, to missing 3 year old roads, from missing a new double-roundabout (one inside the other), from from from... those are just the major (in terms of relevance on the news and social networks) ones I fixed and google is still not fixing them. And all of these are in the capital, where a lot of people live and should know how to report stuff. Don't even take me to the country side. Even Bing is better than Google here. But of course, Waze is the best, and if it ain't, just tell us where to fix it ;)
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby bgodette » Thu May 30, 2013 10:48 pm

daknife wrote:Reviewed by other editors, and should a legitimate edit be repeatedly reversed people will complain.
No, reviewed by Google contractors, and complaints and repeated proof that the map doesn't match reality is ignored. This is common.
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby Daknife » Thu May 30, 2013 8:58 pm

Reviewed by other editors, and should a legitimate edit be repeatedly reversed people will complain. When it was paper maps or closed GPS devices where they had no ability to edit or even really complain about such errors, users just had to live with them. No longer is that an option. And users will retaliate against rejected edits. I had one that some dude in South Africa rejected even though my edit was entirely legit. I remade the edit, and then went and found some edits that editor had rejected and rejected some of his, with a note that if he is going to review edits on the other side of the world he'd better learn to trust the locals making the edits. My re-edit went through.

Google is far from perfect but they pride themselves on the level of accuracy they present and rejecting legitimate edits does not support that corporate policy. Google is Serious about it's "Do no Evil" motto. Even more so the culture within the corp among the engineers developing these projects is very strongly against such a policy of rejecting edits that fix inaccurate information.
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Re: Why do people hate online maps?

Postby bgodette » Wed May 29, 2013 2:38 pm

daknife wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Google purposely misnames/mislabels data in order to catch copying.

Sorry but I don't believe it does, nor that such traps would remain for long as any user can go in and edit to correct intentional errors. Such a tactic might have once worked in the days of paper maps or closed systems, but since they opened their maps up to any and everybody to fix and improved (something I think they learned from Waze) such is no longer a viable method.

I no longer have to just live with the typo or misspelling of my street, I can fix it. And their trap vanishes. As to just plain inaccuracies, that happens often due to errors in the official government sources.
That would be true if all edits in MapMaker were not reviewed. You'll see modifications to official traps undone.
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