Tile updates paused

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Tile updates paused

Postby maantje76 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:10 pm

If these 'problems' are going to take à long time again , it could maybe be better to keep updating the map on a weekly basis, but during this process, (how long does it take at the moment, 2 days?), put WME offline. It's not ideal, but as à temperory solution acceptable for everybody I think...and we are not creating à gigantic backlog again...

But maybe I say something stuppid right now ;)
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby Shaigan » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:12 pm

+1

Disapointed too:cry:

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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby tibble » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:41 pm

HavanaDay wrote:Why can’t toll roads be in the editor so we can start getting these mapped out.


In the past it has been said that there will be zero DB changes until the infra stuff is fixed. I assume this means they were switching to a more distributed DB to get around their lock issue to help with load balancing(complete guess). Adding a toll road attribute to the segments would necessitate a DB change. The shields are presumably there already but probably not in the way they ultimately want it when it's added to the editor, so same boat.

Hopefully the freeze will only be for a week or two. I think they should have staggered releases or made sure the infrastructure was ready for this spike, but since they didn't this is the best they can do right now. For two weeks i think making sure there's no routing timeouts is more important than map updates :/
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby tibble » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:17 pm

HavanaDay wrote:Two week's I would probably consider a time frame I can live with. But we have all been through those multiple weeks and months time frame as well.


Yeah, i certainly don't want to get back to once every 45 days map updates :/
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby tibble » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:46 am

xteejx wrote:You're all kinda missing the point. Why is the tile and drive processing done on the same servers as the realtime stuff like routing? Anyone with a brain would know they are 2 separate things and should never touch.
2 copies of the sql database, 1 on each server zsyncing with each other, well live to static anyway. Realtime stuff carries on while the processing of drives and tiles is done on the db snapshot machine, thereby eliminating processing and memory load completely.
Basically, these things should be on separate servers, free to run simultaneously. It's really not that difficult to setup zsync on a cron job, or even to start it manually after last build.
The fact that the process has been stopped is the indication that currently, everything is ran together on the same server. What the hell?!

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You may be missing the fact that the speeds gathered from all the users are saved to the db 24/7.
This means once the snapshot db is updated with new tiles they'd then have to merge the changes from the 'production' DB.
Either way, this is the kind of thing they probably meant with the infrastructure changes they are making. Hopefully they aren't done, because the improvements so far haven't been as major as what they were hinting at.
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby tibble » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:23 pm

bgodette wrote:Yes and no. The realtime segment speed (traffic layer) is part of Live, however historical data is part of the edit database and comes from drive analysis. You can see this for yourself on any newly created segment, it will start to collect average speed data from every drive across it without being part of the Live/Routing map. So basically xteejx is still right, there's no logical reason for them to be tied together, they shouldn't even be on the same database server or datastore.


So are we assuming that historical data only updates during a tile process? or does the routing server talk to the 'edit database' to get historical information? If the latter than the ability to get historical data, and thus the routing server to perform it's duty, would be impacted during a tile rebuild. If the former, then the delays in tile processing impact historical gathering which would be a shame :(
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby tibble » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:14 pm

xteejx wrote:We're not assuming, we know that. It's been confirmed by Waze.

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Which is the 'it' 'we' know?
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby TonyG-UK » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:16 am

xteejx wrote:You're all kinda missing the point. Why is the tile and drive processing done on the same servers as the realtime stuff like routing? Anyone with a brain would know they are 2 separate things and should never touch.
The fact that the process has been stopped is the indication that currently, everything is ran together on the same server. What the hell?!


That's an assumption on your part, and may well not be correct. For example, it may well be that Waze have bought N-units of resourcing from Amazon, and then Waze choose how to use these resources. They can decide to use it all for Live stuff, or a mix of Live and Backend stuff.

It doesn't necessarily mean they run on the same servers - just that they are competing for resources - what those resources are you are guessing.
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby TonyG-UK » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:51 am

xteejx wrote:Either way, my point is very valid. If they were separate things it wouldn't happen. No need for assumptions, it's either separate servers or separate clusters. Both have memory and processing requirements that are pretty damn high. Should be able to run both concurrently is my point.


And my point was that they probably can run both concurrently - now. They just don't want to spend the extra money to buy more resource from Amazon. I.e. it's not a technical issue, it's a financial one.
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Re: Tile updates paused

Postby xteejx » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:53 am

They need to sort out their bank account. We all know they use AWS. It's scalable to absolute immense power if you pay for it. Look it up, elastic load balancing, seriously there is NO excuse anymore for these problems. I said it before, if you want to support more users, bring more servers online, it's what Amazon do and it's why people pay to use their services... Scalability and parallel processing... I was shrugged off during the Paris meet up (didn't attend dmcconachie spoke on my behalf about it) about these issues, and we were all told it was software issues, not processing power. Well I now know as well as you guys that that's just to fob us off. Don't get me wrong I love Waze and want to see it make it, but unless truths are told and we're not treated as if we're stupid it's just not going to work.
To have respect, you need to respect your community. Infrastructure is what makes any of the system even possible. Get that fixed so that it really IS scalable and release as much as you like. Until that time comes, it will just be one problem after another until everyone gets fed up with it and leaves, which I'm sure will be heartbreaking for most of us that have devoted our time and resources on this product.

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