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Question for safety purposes

Post by txemt
I brought up and interesting question to the other 2 AMs in my area about a certain section of highway in downtown San Antonio, and I want to throw this out to the other editors to get some opinion. In the permalink, the highlighted highway is coming off of a lower level. About a mile and a half from this exit, the interstate splits into a lower and upper level. I have a problem with this (one of my pet peeves) because people decide to cross 3 lanes of traffic from the lower level to make the exit. Even though there is a sign at the beginning of the split that implies the exit is easier to access off of the upper level than the lower level.

My thought is this: If the highlighted segment isn't connected to the ramp, it will prevent Waze from directing drivers to cross the 3 lanes of traffic to make the exit. This will force them onto the upper level to make the exit and for those who don't need/want to exit, it will allow the driver to decide which level they can take. I drove this same route the other day with the navigation turned on, so I could see firsthand what it would tell me to do, and Waze didn't tell me anything until I got a mile from the exit. At that point in time, I'm already beyond the split. There is an exit and side streets someone could take in the event they want on the other level, if they choose to.

I see this more from a safety standpoint as well as a better navigation standpoint. One of the other AMs did suggest we mark one section of the upper level with the sign that directs drivers to the upper level for the exit.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... s=48149025
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
I say you design the Waze map with safety and better driving practices in mind. The local will go wherever they want, but the visitor may well get quite confused, so making it impossible for Waze to route in an unsafe manner would be advisable.

As mapcat mentions, if someone were to get bad GPS reception or start Waze in this area, there is no way for Waze to know which level they are on. I see URs for complaints like that all the time when a driver is on a surface street, starts Waze, but Waze affixes them to an interstate bridge or vice versa. There's just no way to deal with this, so I say go for it and do it up right.

Here's a situation I dealt with recently which is similar to yours: You can also employ very small segments at junctions/splits while still keeping a consistent naming along other parts of the freeway. You may already do this, but in case not, check out these two short segments which give drivers the proper instructions, emulate what they see on the signage, but then the roadway naming reverts to the actual name quite quickly, so that as OR22 eastbound continues, it looks like it has a consistent name.

A driver can take the opposite side if they want to, but once the paths meet together on the bridge, it can be difficult and dangerous to cross all the way over to the other side, so I've made it so Waze will always give the safe directions. I also aligned the highway segments on the bridge very close together so that in the app, the driver really shouldn't notice anything too weird, like multiple roads.
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by Alice2
Mapcat and Allen are right - the GPS will not be able to tell the difference between the upper and lower levels. They are too close together. I have named the two segments coming off I-35 N to show where they will ultimately lead and rearranged the geometry to hopefully get 'stay right' and 'stay left' verbal directions before and at the split into the two levels. https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-98.50 ... s=63003991. You will always have some drivers who will nevertheless get on the wrong level, and they will have no other way to get where they want to go besides moving over several lanes at the last minute. I don't think it would be good to tell them "You didn't do it right - now you can't get where you want to go!"
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by mapcat
Great idea but difficult to implement. If the upper level lanes are directly above the lower level lanes, Waze will have no idea which level the driver is on. Even if following a route, and the route tells him to get on the upper level lanes specifically to allow him to take that exit, any number of things could cause it to switch him to the other set, or back and forth, while he's driving.

So I think your proposal is the best way to handle this, but it probably will fail occasionally through no fault of your own.
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by McCracken808
I got lost right there at that I35/US281 interchange. Not due to road level, but due to the fact that I didn't have Waze at the time. I was trying to get on N281 and accidentally got off at Newell. I would err on the safety side as I didn't think it was too safe traveling down Broadway at 3am. Probably was, but that's just an out-of-towners thoughts.

Carry on...
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by txemt
McCracken808 wrote:I got lost right there at that I35/US281 interchange. Not due to road level, but due to the fact that I didn't have Waze at the time. I was trying to get on N281 and accidentally got off at Newell. I would err on the safety side as I didn't think it was too safe traveling down Broadway at 3am. Probably was, but that's just an out-of-towners thoughts.

Carry on...
Welcome to San Antonio. We'll confuse the shit out of you with our highways. =) But you're the example I'm talking about. An out of towner who's not paying attention to either the signs, or gets bad directions from someone, or even confusing directions. Directions to a local makes sense, but when you're telling an out of towner, it's "all Greek to them."

Alan, I may do that. I'm going to bounce that to the other 2 AMs and see how they like it.
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by txemt
I originally had the lower level not connected to the ramp. One of the other AMs came in behind me and connected it a few days ago. I questioned him about it and got this response:
Mircurios wrote:I don't think that's necessary. Waze will give a warning 1 mile and at closer intervals before the exit that you need keep right, and the guide signs will as well. The connection is also necessary to route traffic from the Quincy entrance, as well as anyone who missed the level split.
And my reply to that:
txemt wrote:I live in the medical center and go to UIW. This evening, on my way to a meeting at school, I took 10 to 35 to see what the "blocked UR" was all about. There's nothing blocking the service road near Martin, so I cleared it. After checking out that UR spot, I then went to school. I used the navigation to get me there because I wanted to see what it would tell me to do. I found out that the upper and lower levels of I-35 are longer than a mile long and you don't get the mile update until you're well onto either the lower or upper sections. I took the upper, because I knew it was where I needed to be. Everything else was fine with the routing, but it still brings up my point about not connecting the lower segment to the ramp at that intersection. Alice did bring up a good point about the sign that sits at the split telling you Austin to the lower level and 281/37 to the upper level.

I get what you're saying about Quincy Ave getting onto 35, but in order to get to that exit more effectively, I'd go down the 3 blocks to McCollough and get on there. In my eyes, it's a lot safer and easier to navigate instead of going across the 3-4 lanes to make the exit.

If that segment of road isn't connected to the ramp, then Waze would direct drivers to the upper level to exit and the lower level to get around it.
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Re: Question for safety purposes

Post by txemt
Alice2 wrote:Mapcat and Allen are right - the GPS will not be able to tell the difference between the upper and lower levels. They are too close together. I have named the two segments coming off I-35 N to show where they will ultimately lead and rearranged the geometry to hopefully get 'stay right' and 'stay left' verbal directions before and at the split into the two levels. https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-98.50 ... s=63003991. You will always have some drivers who will nevertheless get on the wrong level, and they will have no other way to get where they want to go besides moving over several lanes at the last minute. I don't think it would be good to tell them "You didn't do it right - now you can't get where you want to go!"
Alice2, I'm going to go in behind you and make a very small adjustment. Refer to Alan's waze link to see what I'm going to do.
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