Most users did not follow the suggested route?

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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby vectorspace » Sat May 11, 2013 12:27 am

Revisiting this thread, I was wondering if Waze was going to stop producing these errors, refine the algorithm so there are much fewer false-positive errors, or give additional detail to diagnose.

I have periodically gone in to see what is going on with these. Typically there is a suggested route and then a line with a circle and number, apparently showing how many times people did not follow the route and where they went.

I have looked around to see if there was a broken segment or turn restriction that would have caused the route difference, but have not seen anything certain. I'd like to see these errors go away until Waze can reduce the false-positives.
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby phidauex » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:28 am

Actually, reading some of the other threads at the moment it looks like there is some overall weird-ness right now with the NA server, maybe related to the rollback from a few days ago... Not sure WHAT is going on, so I'm going to just keep my eye on them for a few days and see what happens.

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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby phidauex » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:14 am

There is a server weirdness with their display properties, but the URs themselves seem to be "real" - we probably just got a bunch because the server processes batches, and just did our area - I'm looking at a lot in Boulder and up I-70, and cleaning up most of them.

Most are trivial, either an incorrect turn restriction, or one I know was fixed recently (and the UR processor uses historical data so it will sometimes throw an error even though the map was already fixed). Some are just areas where people are ignoring the directions, even though they are "legal". In these cases I gather it is best to just verify all the turn restrictions in the area, and then mark it "solved" and hope the routing engine adapts on it's own?

However, along I-70 there seem to be a lot of places where the routing engine was doing and "off and on", and people were rightly ignoring it. I'm hoping someone experienced with highways could take a quick look at a few of them to make sure there isn't something broken in the junctions...

Here is the permalink to the first one, and there are several more as you head East on I-70 toward Denver: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lon ... TTTTTTTTFT

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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby ottonomy » Tue May 14, 2013 9:54 pm

The fact that some of these MPs do point to actual correctable problems does little to convince me that they aren't still being generated by old data. It merely means that in those cases, no one caught the problem before. In the Los Angeles basin, I close between fifty and a hundred of that particular variety of MP every week. A great number of them turn up where alleys were previously set as service road type (no routing penalty difference from regular street segments) instead of parking lot or private road type. These are often in repeat locations, where I changed the road type myself in response to a prior MP or UR. If Waze were actually routing users down these alleys still, as the MPs suggest, then I would expect to see the occasional UR submitted by a driver, but I don't. One could argue that drivers don't bother to report, but the high frequency of URs popping up in places where the road type IS set wrong would back up my thesis. These MPs are still using outdated drive and routing data. Note that they always appear in red, as if they are aging map issues, never in yellow or orange, like newer ones do. I come upon an equal number of automatically generated "restricted turn might be allowed" MPs, and these always start out in yellow. There may be some question as to whether Waze will occasionally have a routing failure and send someone over a parking lot road segment mid-route, but I have documented occasions where these MPs show Waze routing over roads that have been deleted or separated well over a month before the MP shows up.

See my example in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49135#p440491

What's most frustrating about these is not the fact that I have to waste time closing them again and again, but that newer editors who are unaware of the old-data issue find them and try to fix problems which no longer exist. This is a big problem in LA, where we have wave upon wave of new people trying out WME on a weekly basis. I find myself locking things which shouldn't need to be locked, all because Waze keeps generating these MPs where all the issues have been dealt with, and nary a UR ever shows up.
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby ncc1701v » Wed May 15, 2013 8:05 pm

Ayzmo wrote:I just got one based on old data as well. Users were ignoring a road that hasn't existed in over a year.

but ... that's a different kind of old data. If Waze is trying to send people over a road that hasn't existed for a year and WME complains that users are NOT taking it, that means Waze is wrong. (If WME complains that people were taking a NEW road it doesn't know about, that's a problem to ignore.)

No?
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby ncc1701v » Sat May 11, 2013 10:51 pm

I see reverse connections on all three junctions in that triangle (http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Glossary#Reverse_Connectivity). Try fixing those (http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Community_Plugins,_Extensions_and_Tools#WME_Junction_Node_Fixer) and see what happens.
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby ncc1701v » Sat May 11, 2013 12:51 am

I've seen plenty that are real problems. Let's see, in the last two days I've had several with mistakes in road direction, one where the road wasn't actually connected, and several where a one-way road had a self-connection that was confusing routing. I see more that are apparently real problems than not. Sometimes there is no explanation for the routing. In that case I either mark it solved or occasionally I take the junction apart and reassemble it.

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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby MrFoosh » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:30 am

I found that same thing here in Omaha & Lincoln; had about 5 or 6 auto-URs and only 1 of them had an actual error with a turn restriction.
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby jasonh300 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:29 pm

doomedtx wrote:As it turns out, using the livemap I was able to find one segment of US-65 S that wasn't allowing routing, although on WME all the arrows were green. I deleted several extra nodes and there is now one continuous segment between the two points that currently don't work on the livemap. I'm gonna try it again when the servers update to see if I fixed the problem or other routing errors exist.


This sort of problem with bad junctions was supposed to have been fixed a while back, but I found one today that Waze refuses to route through. I wish I would've realized that was the case before I messed with it so I could've sent it to the developers. In most cases, all you have to do is move the junction slightly and it'll route properly. However, the only way to find these buggy junctions is for someone to get routed around it and complain...or randomly try different routes in LiveMap. They shouldn't happen at all, ever.
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Re: Most users did not follow the suggested route?

Postby jasonh300 » Wed May 15, 2013 8:29 pm

ncc1701v wrote:
Ayzmo wrote:I just got one based on old data as well. Users were ignoring a road that hasn't existed in over a year.

but ... that's a different kind of old data. If Waze is trying to send people over a road that hasn't existed for a year and WME complains that users are NOT taking it, that means Waze is wrong. (If WME complains that people were taking a NEW road it doesn't know about, that's a problem to ignore.)

No?


The issue is that the roads were changed or deleted a year ago. Before that, people were being routed via that deleted or changed road, and they were ignoring it. The data was being collected at the time, but there was no MP to report it. Now that the MP exists, it finds these problems in that ancient data and shows the error in the editor.

I haven't seen any instances of Waze trying to route on a road that has been deleted from the map.

Likewise, people have posted that these MPs show that users are being routed through parking lots that were changed to Parking Lot type segments months ago. But nobody has seen this happen in a LiveMap simulation or on the actual client...once again, old data. If these things were actually happening now, we'd be seeing URs as well as the MPs.
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