Un-named segments for better navigation

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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Timbones » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 pm

CBenson wrote:Surprised about the silence for multiple unnamed segments. Is that something that should be raised with waze as a bug?

Yeah, probably.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Timbones » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:49 am

:arrow: Thread moved to Editing forum for wider discussion...
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby iainhouse » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:28 am

I presume this was moved out of the Champs forum? Can't think how I missed it otherwise.

It seems like a very good idea. My immediate thoughts turned to the junction of the clockwise M25 and A21, where it looks like you may have been testing this.

In the 9 months I have been editing, I have seen URs here almost weekly for "wrong directions". As a noob, I didn't dare touch a motorway junction! By the time I felt experienced enough, there were already several fingers in the pie, so I watched the discussions from the sidelines. Well, it looks like the un-named segment went in at the end of January and I certainly haven't seen a UR there for a long time, so it appears to work nicely.

It should certainly by up for wider discussion - not least because I now realise I may have recently "fixed" several un-named segments between roundabouts without realising they were there for a reason! :shock: :oops: :lol:

I would suggest that any deliberately un-named segment like this should be locked, to try & prevent casual idiots like me coming along & re-naming them.

I'm going to give it a try myself: there's a double-mini roundabout at Brockely Cross near me. I know it gives some long-winded & occasionally confusing instructions, plus it's not well aligned to the GPS & aerials. I'm off to Scotland for a couple of weeks, but I'll make sure I test-drive the rebuild version when I get back. :)
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:48 pm

Think I'll test this theory on these ramp segments:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... 5,12925503

Attention was called to it with this UR:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... TTTFTTTTFT

In case it's closed, here's what it looks like:

H1H3.png
(240.69 KiB) Downloaded 972 times


The stated problem:
it told me to go the comlplete wrong way on the merger it split into 3 lanes and the map didnt even recogonize that

Just guessing that this was the "merger" that was meant, though it may not be. Drove there and when the highlighted segments then led either to the E-H3 or to the E-H201, I got no nav guidance telling me there was a choice.

Any idea on how to test this? Should I delete the name on both the highlighted segments, or just the first? (In any case, I'll save it someplace so I can put it back if it doesn't work!) :)
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Nacron » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:03 pm

vickimachado wrote:Think I'll test this theory on these ramp segments:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... 5,12925503

Attention was called to it with this UR:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... TTTFTTTTFT

In case it's closed, here's what it looks like:

H201H3.png


The stated problem:
it told me to go the comlplete wrong way on the merger it split into 3 lanes and the map didnt even recogonize that

Just guessing that this was the "merger" that was meant, though it may not be. Drove there and when the highlighted segments then led either to the E-H3 or to the E-H201, I got no nav guidance telling me there was a choice.

Any idea on how to test this? Should I delete the name on both the highlighted segments, or just the first? (In any case, I'll save it someplace so I can put it back if it doesn't work!) :)


If it's the area next to the H201 that splits to go to the H3 or H201 I already noticed that a long time ago and made that guide naming there. I did the same thing at the W H1/W H201 split and it calls ut the guide naming correctly. Perhaps the segment before the split has to just be blank instead of having a name.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby CBenson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm not following the issue here. If you are traveling from W H1 Fwy to E H3 Fwy, then you should first get an "Exit right at Exit 18B: E H3 Fwy / E H201 Fwy / Kanoehe / Honolulu" instruction and then a "Stay to the left at E H3 Fwy / Kaneohe" instruction. Is this not what happens? These instructions show on the nav list on my phone if I route through there.

If you are traveling from W H1 Fwy to E H201 Fwy, then you get the first instruction but no keep right. Because you are staying on the same road type (and the other option changes road type) the right is the best continuation and doesn't receive a turn instruction. If you want instructions for both directions its best for them to be the same road type.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby davipt » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:36 pm

vickimachado wrote:Any idea on how to test this? Should I delete the name on both the highlighted segments, or just the first? (In any case, I'll save it someplace so I can put it back if it doesn't work!) :)


I've learned already that a lot of rules are different from NA and INTL, but in my INTL opinion and experience (have just fixed a couple of cases) the angle is also important, but not all the time.

WME is quite slow, I can't read the roads right now, but I'm assuming it's the ramp " to E H3 Fwy / E H201 Fwy / Kaneohe / Honolulu, No city, Hawaii " going to the ramp " to E H201 Fwy / Honolulu, No city, Hawaii" or left to the freeway " to E H3 Fwy / Kaneohe, No city, Hawaii ".

As I can see the two ramps are 180º, completely straight ahead, so it won't *ever* IMHO say anything. The left one has a 8º angle, which IMHO is also not enough to state any instruction.

In other words, I'm changing my cases, being the ones with the empty small segment, or the ones similar to this case - all three segments different names and all two keep left/right must be be said - I'm currently aiming at around 20º and slightly more than 10m. I'm sure I'm wrong with these values, but my gut feeling right now - based on some cases - is that 10, even 12º wasn't enough to trigger the instruction. Also the 10m seems to be a golden value used to "detect u-turns" so I'm trying to keep them around 15m.

Hope this can help anything. Hard to analyze more being NA and being slow as hell :(
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby CBenson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:50 pm

I'd being interested is seeing examples where the small angles don't give instructions. I've always received instructions here and here for example. It would be interesting to see what is different (other than the INTL/NA difference).
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby davipt » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:07 pm

CBenson wrote:I'd being interested is seeing examples where the small angles don't give instructions. I've always received instructions here and here for example. It would be interesting to see what is different (other than the INTL/NA difference).


There are so many variables involved that it's hard to say for sure yes or no like this ;) Besides the NA/INTL, there is the case of the same road type - most of my cases, as well as the original question, involves different types, freeway/highway and ramps usually.
Another case I have a gut feeling is if one angle is small and the other is less small - try one segment with 0º and the other with 15º and see if the 0º isn't interpreted as a straight ahead and no instruction.

My intention wasn't to give the impression that the angles are needed, just that with so many variables I'd rather apply all information I can get instead of trial and error for multiple iterations. It's enough for me to get roundabouts screwed up without anyone toughing them.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Nacron » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:23 pm

How is it that this junction works fine

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 5,61214733

but the other example does not?
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