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Un-named segments for better navigation

Post by
[Long post warning - originally posted to Navigation Experts forum]

I've been experimenting with the use of un-named segments to get better navigation instructions. The rationale is thus: when Waze shows a turn onto an unnamed segment, it gives the name of the following segment instead. This can be useful in a number of scenarios:

Freeway/Highway Split
When a freeway or highway splits in two, you often need Waze to give keep left/right instructions for both continuations. The Junction Style guide suggests using 'wayfinder segments'. An alternative approach we've been trialing in the UK is to use a blank segment before the split, and then naming the following segments as per the road name.

Example: M1 / M621 split will give these two navigation instructions, which are easy to match against road signs:
  • Keep left to M1 (N)
    or
  • Keep right to M621 (W)
Split Ramps
When a single ramp exits from a Freeway, and then splits into two different directions. Often it is helpful to know which of the split ramps you will need before leaving the freeway. By leaving the first ramp un-named, Waze will do exactly this. This gives the driver plenty of notice to read the signs and get in the correct lane as soon as possible. They will then get another instruction to keep left or right once they've entered the ramp.

Example: M4 (W) to M25 will give one of the following two instructions to exit the Freeway (streetview):
  • Exit left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (S), then
  • Keep left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (S)
    or
  • Exit left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (N), then
  • Keep right to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (N)
Example: The A1 (M) / M62 Interchange has no names on any of the connecting segments, and all routes through the junction will give the correct names. For each set of directions, the driver will see the name of the freeway that they will be driving on to before they leave the previous freeway.

To illustrate, this route* will give the following instructions: (*ignore out-of-date Livemap, and instructions from addon)
  • Keep left to A1(M) (S), then
  • Keep right to A1(M) (S)
Double Roundabouts
Sometimes 1 roundabout just isn't enough, so road designers put in two with a connecting link road in between. There's often not enough time to give appropriate instructions to allow the driver to get in the right lane while navigating between the two roundabouts. By leaving the link road un-named, Waze will give the name of the exit road of the second roundabout before the driver has entered the first. This gives the driver plenty of time to read the road signs and move into the appropriate lane.

Example: Hopgrove Roundabout has two roundabouts and a short link between them. As you approach the junction from the south, you really do need to be in the right lane (streetview). Here, Waze will give three possible sets of instructions:
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (E)
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1036 - Malton Rd, then
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1036 - Malton Rd
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1237, then
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A1237
Traveling in the opposite direction, e.g. from A1237 to A64, Waze will say which direction to go before the first roundabout:
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (E), then
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A64 (E)
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (W), then
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (W)
Pictures!
hopgrove1.png
hopgrove2.png
Caveat: TTS will not read out the name of the following segment, but it does display on the client.


Does this make sense? Can anyone see any problems with these scenarios? Is there any other scenario where un-named segments could be useful?

:ugeek:

POSTER_ID:1445148

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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
Vicki, the segment which should be unnamed is this one: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=12925503. There's no reason for it to be named as it will never be shown on the navigation guidance. Then you can use two named ramp segments (one ramp segment named "to E H3 Fwy / Kaneohe" and the other named "to E H201 Fwy / Honolulu") at the split and both will be announced because the previous (long) segment was unnamed.

There's no need for all this extra kludgy stuff to be done.
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
As an example from my previous post, see this segment: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=66095587

And, if you have Livemap navigation add-on, see how the instructions come out:

Into Clackamas Town Center (mall): http://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=15&lo ... g=70258916

Onto Sunnyside Rd westbound: http://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=15&lo ... g=61551280

That unnamed segment in the middle makes it so Waze will give a "keep left" or "keep right" the right place, and because of it being unnamed, Waze in the app automatically announces the name of the next named segment, which is exactly what we want.
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
vickimachado wrote:Damn, really? Then would what Alan suggested be better?
I still can come up with a Good Idea every now and again! :geek:
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
vickimachado wrote:
Nacron wrote: What will show if there's a map report on the unnamed segment? Police reported on unnamed road?
I think that is an issue.
It will, Nacron. And that is an issue.

As I ponder this more...even if the segment is named, as long as the next two segments are named differently from the parent, and there is an angle of 30 degrees or so (can't remember exactly), from the parent to each following ramp segment, then you should get proper TTS for both right and left.
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
sketch wrote:I cannot agree with the use of unnamed segments as a replacement for pathfinder segments in the United States, especially in light of kentsmith9's traffic concern.
The middle segment isn't a pathfinder segment and has no need to be named. It will never appear in navigation guidance because it is a segment after a merge of two ramps, and therefore never appears in the app, per what I wrote above and this specific situation. The only reason to name it is for traffic reports.
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
sketch wrote:Sorry, I could have been more clear. This was a reply to the OP only.
Cool then. I agree.
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Post by CBenson
I don't see any problems with your scenarios. They look to be a great description of the advantages of unnamed segments and make great sense. I don't think the unnamed section before the highway split is going to catch on around me because typically we are adding the control cities in the names at split so the instruction is not simply the highway name.

As far as other scenarios go there is the classic segment between carriageways of the split highway where the cross street changes name at the highway.

I also wonder if no name segments are useful to force prompts at street splits as well as highway splits. For instance at this intersection, without the unnamed segment traveling south on Arundel on the Bay Rd you get no instruction when staying left, but do get a "stay to the right at Thomas Point Rd" instruction if going straight. I'm wondering whether adding the no-name segment will cause instructions (both ways) if staying on Arundel on the Bay Rd. It seems to me this is exactly the same principle as you are using on highway splits (but with instructions in both directions to consider).

Lastly, I don't understand your caveat that TTS will not read out the name of the following segment, but it does display on the client.
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Post by CBenson
So in the first screen shot you don't get a equivalent TTS instruction "at the roundabout take the first exit at A1237?"
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Post by CBenson
I'm going to guess that its the roundabouts that disrupt the TTS as I'm not familiar with many double roundabouts. If I recall correctly I have been in parking lots with unnamed segments where I get multiple TTS instructions that recite the name of named road after the parking lot exit as I am routed through the parking lot.
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Post by CBenson
CBenson wrote:I also wonder if no name segments are useful to force prompts at street splits as well as highway splits. For instance at this intersection, without the unnamed segment traveling south on Arundel on the Bay Rd you get no instruction when staying left, but do get a "stay to the right at Thomas Point Rd" instruction if going straight.
I can now confirm that the no name segment does trigger a keep left if traveling southbound on Arundel on the Bay Rd. Traveling northbound from either Thomas Point Rd or Arundel on the Bay Rd gives no instruction when continuing on Arundel on the Bay Rd. due to the slight angles. This seems to be ideal to me.
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