Un-named segments for better navigation

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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby ncc1701v » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:53 pm

sketch wrote:The highlighted segment is unnamed and Ramp type, which is correct.

This segment should be Ramp type as well: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=68651525

Where would you actually start E H3? After all of the ramp mergers are done?
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby ncc1701v » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:41 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:
ncc1701v wrote:segments don't know anything, only the client or route server (collectively "Waze") knows.

I believe AlanOfTheBerg told me from a prior conversation with Waze that the database tracks the average transit times from segment to segment so it can be applied to routing decisions.

As the saying goes in Massachusetts, the light has dawned on Marblehead. Thanks, Kent, for the 1:1 guidance.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby orbitc » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:48 pm

What happens if instead of adding that short segment, split seg 7? This way you will retain all the data and you can still make it an unnamed road (seg 8).
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:10 am

Timbones wrote:Freeway/Highway Split
When a freeway or highway splits in two, you often need Waze to give keep left/right instructions for both continuations. The Junction Style guide suggests using 'wayfinder segments'. An alternative approach we've been trialing in the UK is to use a blank segment before the split, and then naming the following segments as per the road name.

I cannot agree with the use of unnamed segments as a replacement for pathfinder segments in the United States, especially in light of kentsmith9's traffic concern.

Our M.O. for freeway junction naming in the United States is to follow the big green signs as closely as possible. Our interstate system pathfinder signs display a highway name and a control city, and using an unnamed segment beforehand strips the map of that.

Of course, I'm referring to the use in the case of pathfinders only. I support the other prescribed uses in the OP. The roundabout one seems especially wise.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:50 pm

vickimachado wrote:Heck, just trying to do the right thing. Here is the area again. The unnamed segment (previously named "to E H3 Fwy / E H201 Fwy / Kaneohe / Honolulu") is highlighted:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... s=72785182

Here are the green signs at the fork:

freeway.png


the E H-3 fork is now a freeway segment; the Honolulu-bound one on the right is still a ramp. Don't know if the different road types creates a problem.

If that much is OK, should the right fork be named "to E H201 Fwy Honolulu" and the one on the left be called "E H3 Fwy Kaneohe"?

Appreciate everyone's patience. I do try to read the wiki but don't always find it clear. And i really don't mean to be idly mucking around with freeways. Just trying to get the right prompts.

The highlighted segment is unnamed and Ramp type, which is correct.

The first two segments of the left fork should be joined and set to Ramp type as well. The segment should be named "to E H3 Fwy / Kaneohe". [edited]

When you're given a choice between two ramps that are of relatively equal value, both types must be set to Ramp for proper instruction.

I would also add a slight jog to give the right fork about a 20º departure angle from the previous ramp, just to be safe.

Both segments are correctly named now (i.e., starting with "to"). The rules for wayfinder segments do not apply here—wayfinders only happen when one freeway segment connects to another.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:58 pm

ncc1701v wrote:Where would you actually start E H3? After all of the ramp mergers are done?

I would start E H3 at the point where the first and second ramps merge.

Logically, since the split is defined into two ramps for the sake of routing (because it appears as two ramps to the driver), the ramp on the left might as well stay a ramp until the end of the segment, for simplicity.

In that case, when two ramps converge from different directions, the freeway begins, like here: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat ... s=62997868
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:25 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
sketch wrote:I cannot agree with the use of unnamed segments as a replacement for pathfinder segments in the United States, especially in light of kentsmith9's traffic concern.

The middle segment isn't a pathfinder segment and has no need to be named. It will never appear in navigation guidance because it is a segment after a merge of two ramps, and therefore never appears in the app, per what I wrote above and this specific situation. The only reason to name it is for traffic reports.

Sorry, I could have been more clear. This was a reply to the OP only.
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Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Timbones » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:59 am

[Long post warning - originally posted to Navigation Experts forum]

I've been experimenting with the use of un-named segments to get better navigation instructions. The rationale is thus: when Waze shows a turn onto an unnamed segment, it gives the name of the following segment instead. This can be useful in a number of scenarios:

Freeway/Highway Split
When a freeway or highway splits in two, you often need Waze to give keep left/right instructions for both continuations. The Junction Style guide suggests using 'wayfinder segments'. An alternative approach we've been trialing in the UK is to use a blank segment before the split, and then naming the following segments as per the road name.

Example: M1 / M621 split will give these two navigation instructions, which are easy to match against road signs:

  • Keep left to M1 (N)
    or
  • Keep right to M621 (W)

Split Ramps
When a single ramp exits from a Freeway, and then splits into two different directions. Often it is helpful to know which of the split ramps you will need before leaving the freeway. By leaving the first ramp un-named, Waze will do exactly this. This gives the driver plenty of notice to read the signs and get in the correct lane as soon as possible. They will then get another instruction to keep left or right once they've entered the ramp.

Example: M4 (W) to M25 will give one of the following two instructions to exit the Freeway (streetview):

  • Exit left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (S), then
  • Keep left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (S)
    or
  • Exit left to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (N), then
  • Keep right to M4 (W) J4b to M25 (N)

Example: The A1 (M) / M62 Interchange has no names on any of the connecting segments, and all routes through the junction will give the correct names. For each set of directions, the driver will see the name of the freeway that they will be driving on to before they leave the previous freeway.

To illustrate, this route* will give the following instructions: (*ignore out-of-date Livemap, and instructions from addon)
  • Keep left to A1(M) (S), then
  • Keep right to A1(M) (S)

Double Roundabouts
Sometimes 1 roundabout just isn't enough, so road designers put in two with a connecting link road in between. There's often not enough time to give appropriate instructions to allow the driver to get in the right lane while navigating between the two roundabouts. By leaving the link road un-named, Waze will give the name of the exit road of the second roundabout before the driver has entered the first. This gives the driver plenty of time to read the road signs and move into the appropriate lane.

Example: Hopgrove Roundabout has two roundabouts and a short link between them. As you approach the junction from the south, you really do need to be in the right lane (streetview). Here, Waze will give three possible sets of instructions:

  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (E)
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1036 - Malton Rd, then
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1036 - Malton Rd
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A1237, then
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A1237

Traveling in the opposite direction, e.g. from A1237 to A64, Waze will say which direction to go before the first roundabout:

  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (E), then
  • At the roundabout, take the first exit to A64 (E)
    or
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (W), then
  • At the roundabout, take the second exit to A64 (W)

Pictures!

hopgrove1.png
A64 to A1237
(253.78 KiB) Downloaded 1539 times

hopgrove2.png
A1237 to A64
(32.62 KiB) Downloaded 1542 times


Caveat: TTS will not read out the name of the following segment, but it does display on the client.


Does this make sense? Can anyone see any problems with these scenarios? Is there any other scenario where un-named segments could be useful?

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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Timbones » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:46 pm

^ Yeah, what he said. ^

I think this is because there are more than 1 unnamed segments before the next named one, and TTS can't/doesn't look beyond the next one. The other scenarios with only one unnamed segment should be okay.

I've not tested the M62 / A1(M) example I posted above (with many unnamed segments), so I don't know if that'll read out all road names or not. If that example does work, then it might be the roundabouts that disrupt TTS.

Edit: no, it's not just roundabouts that have this issue.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Timbones » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:35 am

I've heard from another user than TTS doesn't speak the following road name when there are multiple un-named ramps before the next named segment (here). The client display does show the next name though.

Any further thoughts on this? Is this an approach we want to see used more often? Should I move/copy this thread to the main Editing forum?
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