Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instructions

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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby jasonh300 » Sun May 26, 2013 2:18 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:There was also a recent posting about a user being reprimanded by Waze for using a railroad to leave notes.

Read a few posts back.


Oh....duh.


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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby jasonh300 » Sun May 26, 2013 12:18 pm

There was also a recent posting about a user being reprimanded by Waze for using a railroad to leave notes.


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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby iainhouse » Sun May 19, 2013 12:46 am

^ What he said! Lost my network connection whilst trying to say that.

I still wanted to add that there is a very useful Roundabout Angle Script (which I just realised is also thanks to davipt).

If you have to deal with roundabouts frequently, it's a great tool for checking whether you'll get the turn left/turn right/straight across.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Mon May 27, 2013 7:50 pm

jasonh300 wrote:There was also a recent posting about a user being reprimanded by Waze for using a railroad to leave notes.


Via my iPhone 4S.


Overreactions. Nothing to see here. Carry on.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Mon May 27, 2013 7:49 pm

banished wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Writing notes on railroad segments is standard practice. Reply to the email as such and ask them to bring it up with the Global Champs if they haven't heard of this.


Never heard of it until I stumbled into this thread. I encourage a different "type" be used for note-taking for a couple of reasons.

1. It implies there's no value in documenting railroads as real railroads in the WME now or in the future; they're there for notes.

2. I am concerned editors will come to believe that if a railroad type isn't being used as a note, it can be deleted.

Two meetups ago I presented a brief detailing why railroads should be returned to the client. Last meetup I heard Ehud (Waze employee) encourage documenting everything.

All decent car navigation devices include railroads, so we should not go down this railroad "note" path.


It's ugly but only temporary:
- proper notes will come eventually
- railroad is the only type that won't show on the client
- railroads are not changing and the amount is small enough to be easy to draw the real ones and lock to avoid confusion
- only high ranks and only when really needed are notes being used, so they can also be locked, or garbage be deleted

As soon as notes are available, those railroad notes will be deleted right away.

Personally I hadn't yet had the need for them. I've almost considered using fake railroads to improve the border of city areas, specially cities with only a straight segment (the area becomes the whole rectangular/square tile) but then gave up, those cities were not that relevant.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Writing notes on railroad segments is standard practice. Reply to the email as such and ask them to bring it up with the Global Champs if they haven't heard of this.


See my update ;) not really to do with the railroad, nothing to see here, move along.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Wed May 22, 2013 1:36 pm

berestovskyy wrote:And instead of a solution I've got a very demotivated message today from Waze Support: "We received complaints regarding your editing [...] # Writing notes on segments details."

Since my third roundabout example was the only place on a map I used a railroad with "Do not edit plz!", I assume someone here reported me :(


That is weird? I've heard it's common usage to abuse the railroads to leave very specific notes between editors and as far as I know nobody from Waze has complained about it - and if they try, we can always complain back that the promised "notes" feature on the editor is promised but still missing.

Anyone care to share at what length do you use the railroad to keep notes around?

Update: so I heard it had nothing to do with the single railroad segment :P. Relax, we're here to help each other and eventually to have some fun. Anything missing on the roundabout subject?
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Mon May 20, 2013 10:24 am

berestovskyy wrote:Thanks for the answers. Getting back to my OP: can we ask Waze to remove 4 nodes limitation or to count one-way segments separately, so split-road roundabouts would become "normal" to Waze?


How would a route with more than 4 segments behave then? What would it say on the 5th and next exits? Please recall that only recently the segment will (they say) remain one-way if an editor touches it, but older segments (some say admin created and untouched, I doubt it) can still change to two ways, which is the reason I hate so much the Y on roundabouts as the two Y segments will become two-ways and the exit number will get screwed.

Besides on large roundabouts it's usually harder to keep track of left/right/straight than the exit number.

berestovskyy wrote:And more controversial: can we ask Waze to determine straight/left/right on a roundabout by just analyzing the angle between in and out setments? We already have few scripts showing the angles between segments, so it would be much easier for the editors to create a normal roundabout in WME just adjusting in/out segments angles, rather than build X-Y axis.


I thought about this, but then saw some of my cases where the instructions would be more dangerous than today, specially because it would then require me to lock the whole roundabout and the nearby segments to avoid people moving the segments around and screwing the instructions again.

As I said, in your case, either stick to the split entries and let the exit-nth work, or hack the system, have 4 segments in the middle of the tracks and ensure the straight/left/right. ;) K.I.S.S.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Sun May 19, 2013 9:56 am

iainhouse wrote:^ What he said! Lost my network connection whilst trying to say that.

I still wanted to add that there is a very useful Roundabout Angle Script (which I just realised is also thanks to davipt).

If you have to deal with roundabouts frequently, it's a great tool for checking whether you'll get the turn left/turn right/straight across.


Honestly I haven't been using my own script functionality for a while. I've been using http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/160864 which gives me the angles of the segments around a node, to get the right angle for instructions like none, keep or take, and then because it's there, also use if for the roundabouts, as I've given up trying to fix them and just redo it from scratch any time there is any issue. Connecting the segments in the middle, the script gives me the angles. Another great functionality which I haven't yet understood which script does it (maybe the jNF) is the option "Redo Roundabout", which is great to identify and redo potential broken ones. One just needs to be careful with the directions of the segments around (the script may change some to two way), and after redoing it, ensure the level and locking is correct.
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Re: Normal Roundabouts and Take Left/Right/Straight Instruct

Postby davipt » Sun May 19, 2013 12:21 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:In the latest example you gave, I'm not sure why you aren't getting a left/right prompt as those angles are quite close to 90 degrees. Unless the "angle" is calculated from the segment end-points. We haven't been given that level of detail. Here's how your angles look for segment end-to-end angles.


The left/right/straight only works with 2 to 4 segments attached - and please note I used "segments", not "nodes", because as soon as you connect two segments to the same node of the roundabout, all hell breaks loose.

It's worthless to try to align 90º when 5 or more segments are attached. It will always say "take the nth".

Now on your 3rd example, you have two choices - either risk the exit/entry distance and ensure a straight/left/right well behaved roundabout, or not risk and keep the segments on the right GPS tracks. In other words, this roundabout is too dangerous to force a 4 way, as the entries and exist are really too far away.

If you really want to get the keep left, it's quite simple, just kill those Y splits near the roundabout and connect the 4 two-way segments into the middle, align at 90º and create the roundabout.

What I personally do is: if there are 2 to 4 segments, and the instructions are quite clear, I kill as much as possible any unsplited segment (two segments each one-way) nearby and surely always any Y nearby the roundabout, possibly faking the entry/exit point a little to ensure the 90º.

If the roundabout has 3 segments in 120º, or 5 or more, then I respect the GPS lines, still kill any irrelevant Y, but keep the Y in cases so far away like yours so the roundabout design is recognizable from the map.

I think it's more important to see on the map that for example the line coming from southeast to northweast is almost straight than having the keep straight instruction.
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