Walking Trails

The place to get information and ask questions about everything to do with properly and successfully editing the Waze Map.

Use this forum for all general editing questions, and the sub-forums for specific types of Waze Map Editor features.

Moderators: Unholy, bextein

Re: Walking Trails

Postby slandrum » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:17 am

Timbones wrote:Deleting the service road completely is another way to solve this problem (in the general case).


But runs counter to Waze's stated goal of eventually including all driveable roads in the map.
Orange County, CA, USA, Samsung Galaxy S3, Android 4.3 Image
slandrum
 
Posts: 362
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:01 pm
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby Riamus » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:38 am

slandrum wrote:Right, that's what I was responding to - I don't like adding a walking trail that doesn't exist to get from the parking spot to the POI. Even though it generally must be physically possible to walk from where you need to park to the POI, that doesn't mean there's a mappable walking trail. What if such a trail goes through an employee garage, uses an escalator, and a skywalk between two buildings? That really shouldn't be entered in Waze. Instead, the destination should be the parking lot, not the POI.


If I were the one designing the POI system (and this may still be how it's being designed), I would set up POIs the same way we do addresses. Have a POI location with a Stop Point that can be set to the parking lot. Then, instead of how POIs work everywhere else, we'd have a useful feature that I don't think anyone else has. We can be routed directly to the parking lot and still see the POI at the correct location on the map. I think others may just use the address for routing instead of the POI point, but even that can be invalid for some locations because the street address and the parking lot are not at the same location.

But I think the main issue here is how walking trails currently break routing such that you get an error saying you can't route to that address even though it clearly shows the address point at the right location. I don't like the idea of removing major trails that are already mapped, especially really long ones (Michigan has trails of up to at least 70 miles in length). But at the same time, we don't want those trails to break routing. That's why I asked if we might want to consider changing existing trails to Railroads until the problems with routing are fixed. That's a lot easier than deleting them and having to re-map 70 miles of trail at a later date. Maybe that's still not a good idea? I'm open to suggestions. :)
ImageImage
Area Manager: Michigan - Northern LP.
Waze running on Samsung Galaxy S3.
Riamus
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Summerfield, NC
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby Timbones » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:49 am

CBenson wrote:The way walking trails work now is that if a destination is closer to walking trail than a driveable road, waze assumes that you must walk to the destination. The driving instructions are thus given to point on the road network closest to the end of the walking trail.

I've been trying to use this to force Waze to route to the correct roads when the POI is closer to the wrong road, but it doesn't appear to be behaving as you described. See thread in UK forum.

Has the routing behaviour been changed, or does it only do this on NA server?
Timbones(6) • UK Coordinator • Forum Moderator • Global Wiki Moderator • Routing Expert
Extensions: WME Colour HighlightsWME Route TesterWME Geometries
Timbones
Coordinators
Coordinators
 
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:33 am
Location: York, UK
Has thanked: 927 times
Been thanked: 2537 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:21 am

Regional Coordinator: Mid-Atlantic, US
Verizon, Nexus 6, Android 6.0.1, Waze 4.7.0.902
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2354 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:51 pm

I believe that the walking trail has caused the routing problem here.

If waze is going to keep this "feature" of walking trails, then I continue to believe that recreational trails that are currently mapped should be deleted, or if we want to lobby for a change in behavior changed to railroad segment as Raimus suggests until the routing behavior is changed. Trails through suburban or urban areas are going to cause these weird routing problems that most users and editors are not going to be able to figure out.
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Atlantic, US
Verizon, Nexus 6, Android 6.0.1, Waze 4.7.0.902
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2354 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:37 am


Upon further testing of this on the NA server, I can detect no change. Waze still routes to an end of the walking trail here as far as I can tell.
I'm wondering if in the Gatwick example waze isn't just routing to the closest point on the road network to the wrong end of the trail.
Is it possible that's what happening with the Leeds Stations also? Could waze possibly be routing to the closest point on the road network to the end of the trail in the middle of the station? What would happen if you made a walking trail loop with both ends back near the parking lot roads?
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Atlantic, US
Verizon, Nexus 6, Android 6.0.1, Waze 4.7.0.902
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2354 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby Timbones » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:34 pm

CBenson wrote:What would happen if you made a walking trail loop with both ends back near the parking lot roads?

Interesting idea. Will give it a try...

via mobile
Timbones(6) • UK Coordinator • Forum Moderator • Global Wiki Moderator • Routing Expert
Extensions: WME Colour HighlightsWME Route TesterWME Geometries
Timbones
Coordinators
Coordinators
 
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:33 am
Location: York, UK
Has thanked: 927 times
Been thanked: 2537 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:16 am

I am coming from another routing failure thread that ran into this problem. Thanks to CBenson for pointing this out to me, otherwise I would have never expected a walking trail would have caused so many unique problems in routing in a group of condominiums.

If I understand correctly from what CBenson has described, Waze intends to have walking trails (and possibly other non-drivable segments) be a part of routing to an address to help people get to their final destination.

It seems like this objective will be better met when Waze uses internal addresses and allows stop points for an address to be something other than the named street address (like a driveway or parking lot road).

In the mean time the current routing method is including a walking trail that often is not connected to a road and then sometimes forces navigation to end at some completely unrelated street leaving the driver completely confused.

It would seem the best solution today with external GPS locations would be to have the routing engine use the street name in the destination to find the spot on that named road that is closest to the destination. I understand it may be the back of the building, but at least it is the correct road name and anyone could simply drive along that road until they find the front entrance. This is certainly better than being routed to a road the ends at some walkway that may or may not have any way of getting a person to the destination.

What am I missing? :?:
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5128
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1303 times
Been thanked: 1537 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:13 am

kentsmith9 wrote:What am I missing? :?:


It seems to me that it is not universal that the street for the destination will be drivable. If the address is for a street that is not driveable then waze wants to route the driver to the end of the non-drivable street.

Petervdveen has given these examples in the past of addresses associated with non drivable streets:

http://goo.gl/maps/FA1De

http://goo.gl/maps/Qcv6f

http://goo.gl/maps/gNTXk

So I guess the first question becomes - how should addresses on non-driveable streets be mapped in waze? It would be fine to map them and associate addresses with them and then route the end of the segment (or the nearest locations to the drivable road network) if there were no other walking trails on the map. The subsequent question then becomes - why do we have walking trails that have no destinations on them mapped in the US?
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Atlantic, US
Verizon, Nexus 6, Android 6.0.1, Waze 4.7.0.902
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10333
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2354 times

Re: Walking Trails

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:18 am

But in the case I was running into (link above)

1. All of the addresses were on the same drivable street
2. Most of the addresses were routing correctly
3. Only a few addresses were physically closer to the walking trail so Waze tried to route to them
4. Because we are not on our internal addresses, Waze is using the GPS coords to the closest road without regard to the road name (fail and I believe easily fixable)
5. That walking trail segment was unroutable, so Waze defaulted to the closest segment to the end of the walking trail (sending people almost a mile from where they needed to be and no visibility to the road they need)

End result is completely normal addresses and drivable streets are rendered unreachable by navigation because of the poor selection of the Walking Trail near the destination with no name associated with that destination.

So it seems we have a good solution for the future for some countries (ability to route to walking trails when the address is actually on the walking trail), but it is being implemented in a system that is not prepared for it (causing routing problems on normal streets).

If Waze cannot route to the street name listed in the destination, for the US I propose we delete all walking trails that appear to be closer than the street for any destinations to prevent these errors.

Have we been told that the ability to route to a GPS coordinate cannot take into account the road name when trying to find the closest street? As a past programmer this seems ludicrous. I hope that is not the case, but I don't see it in Bugzilla so I added it last week. For those with voting ability, please be sure to raise visibility to this problem. https://bugs.waze.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6291

I think even after internal addresses makes it we still need this feature. When internal addressing does not have a specific address being requested, I understand that it tries to find the two closest addresses to the one being searched and then estimates along that road where that address would likely be located. I know other Navigation system use that method. Therefore in those cases the routing would need to do the GPS estimation along the named street in the destination.

[/rant] :(
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5128
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1303 times
Been thanked: 1537 times

PreviousNext

Return to Waze Map Editor

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Feedfetcher