Walking Trails

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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:07 pm

If we want to document and use this current behavior of the walking trail segments, then I think we should discourage the mapping of long recreational walking and biking trails.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:37 pm

Riamus wrote:Really, a walking trail should never be used when routing for any reason. Waze should treat is as if it isn't there at all. Once Waze decides to allow use of Waze for pedestrians and cyclists, then Waze can use it for routing only when in those modes. That really should be a quick and easy change to make in the routing server. If the road type = walking trail, ignore.

This is true for all non-driveable segment types (walking trail, pedestrian boardwalk, stairway, railroad and runway/taxiway). Yet no matter how much we say it, waze has never made this happen.

Riamus wrote:So it sounds like Waze wants walking trails and is working on fixing the issues with them. That's a good thing and one where we need to make sure they are aware of all issues surrounding them and that they address all of those issues at the same time.

I don't think so. We have had to solve the problem of routing on non-driveable segments by never connecting the segments to the road network. That has essentially worked. However, there has been a recent change where walking trails effect routing even if unconnected from the road network. I suspect that waze is trying to address the circumstance where the address number is attached to the walking trail. However, as the Google database results currently take precedence over the waze database results, anytime you route to an address or POI that has a pin location in the Google database that is closer to a walking trail than a road according the waze map, waze routes you to the walking trail as if the address is accessed by the walking trail. This is new behavior.
So I don't think waze is working on fixing any issue with routing on non-driveable segments. Rather, it seems waze is addressing a new issue, how to route to a destination associated with a walking trail that is not connected to the road network. This new behavior that waze has introduced seems to me to be moving away from "If the road type = walking trail, ignore."
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:45 pm

So waze is planning on updating the routing server so that if a destination is considered to be on a walking trail, waze will route to the closest point on the road network to the walking trail. The change being that it won't necessarily be an end of the trail.

My understanding is that this behavior is not currently compatible with long walking trails. The guidance from waze is to avoid creating long walking trails segments that contain navigable addresses. The problem as I see it is that until the address numbering from WME is implemented as the primary address database, whether a trail "contains navigable addresses" is subject to vagaries of where Google address pins are located.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:34 pm

I highly suspect that we'll see that it is used for routing to destination that are closest to the boardwalk when it is connected to the road network. I'd also be interested to see if behaves in the same way as walking trails do when it is not connected to the road network.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:21 pm

I believe that this only happens with walking trails. It does not happen for railroads.


The issue with not being able to build a route comes about when the destination is closest to the walking trail, but far from the end of the walking trail. In this case waze figures you can't walk that far and won't return a route. This is true even if the destination is 50 feet from a driveable road. That is the example that started the other thread, you can't route to 1820 Wiehle Ave, Reston, VA.

Waze will route to the closest point on the road network to the destination, even if the destination is closer to an unconnected railroad segment than to a road segment.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:41 pm

I agree with Alan. If the destination is closest to the walking trail, then no penalty will be high enough to prevent routing as there is no other alternative to get you to the destination.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:However, we know there are issues with that method even because the closest segment can be that walking trail, but since it is disconnected, then there is no way to get to that closest spot on the closest segment.

Just so we are clear, what currently happens is waze routes you to the closest point on the road network to the end of the walking trail and assumes that you will walk the rest of the way. Try routing to 1600 Ritchie Hwy, Arnold, MD 21012.

1600Ritchie.png
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:37 pm

I take away the following from the Texas thread:

1) Walking trails like any segment can be routed over if connected to the road network. All non-driveable segments should never be connected to the road network.

2) The discussion suggests that wiki provides sufficient guidance for walking trails. I disagree. I see no specific guidance for walking trails. I only see guidance for non-driveable segments in general. However, walking trails effect routing differently from other non-driveable segments. In other words, routing is effected even if the walking trails are not connected to the road network.

3) Pro and cons of walking trails near streets are mentioned. Pros include preventing walkers and bikers using waze from polluting the data for the street. Cons include problems if bad GPS data cause drivers to be snapped to walking trails. What is not discussed is the con of having routing to destinations near the walking trail affected.

4) Several editors support deleting walking trails from the map although there is some support for including long walking trails. However, it is the long trails that cause the most problems with routing.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:00 am

Yes. If no walking trail is drawn in, then the routing is to the closest point on the road network to the destination pin. There are examples of the discrepancy in this thread.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:50 pm

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The current behavior I'm describing is what happens when the walking trail is not connected to the road network. In other words all guidance that non-driveable road types should never be connected to the road network remains fully applicable.
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Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:47 pm

The way walking trails are currently set up, they seem to me to be designed for circumstances where walking is a necessary part of reaching a destination. This is would be in contrast to walking trails that are purely recreational.

The way walking trails work now is that if a destination is closer to walking trail than a driveable road, waze assumes that you must walk to the destination. The driving instructions are thus given to point on the road network closest to the end of the walking trail.

If the walking trail is very long and the destination is along the middle of the trail, then walking from the end of the segment would be simply too far and the routing server returns "route not found."

Waze is considering changing how the routing server treats walking trails. However, if the current routing continues to be how walking trails are treated, then I think recreational trails should be deleted from map. If we want recreational trails to be on the map, I think we should provide feedback to the developers that we would like the routing server to treat walking trails in a different manner. One option is to not consider a destination as ever being on a walking trail.
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