Walking Trails

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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:45 pm

So waze is planning on updating the routing server so that if a destination is considered to be on a walking trail, waze will route to the closest point on the road network to the walking trail. The change being that it won't necessarily be an end of the trail.

My understanding is that this behavior is not currently compatible with long walking trails. The guidance from waze is to avoid creating long walking trails segments that contain navigable addresses. The problem as I see it is that until the address numbering from WME is implemented as the primary address database, whether a trail "contains navigable addresses" is subject to vagaries of where Google address pins are located.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:34 pm

I highly suspect that we'll see that it is used for routing to destination that are closest to the boardwalk when it is connected to the road network. I'd also be interested to see if behaves in the same way as walking trails do when it is not connected to the road network.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby trooster10 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:35 am

What about pedestrian boardwalks - are there any functional differences between that road type and walking trails? I've noticed that trails have speed data but boardwalks don't. Here is an example of one that is mapped because it has house numbers on it. As has been mentioned, the app will route you to the end of the nearest street since the boardwalk is not connected to the street grid at any point. However, I can try connecting it to the street grid and see what results we get - since it's the offseason I don't think it'll be an issue.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:21 pm

I believe that this only happens with walking trails. It does not happen for railroads.


The issue with not being able to build a route comes about when the destination is closest to the walking trail, but far from the end of the walking trail. In this case waze figures you can't walk that far and won't return a route. This is true even if the destination is 50 feet from a driveable road. That is the example that started the other thread, you can't route to 1820 Wiehle Ave, Reston, VA.

Waze will route to the closest point on the road network to the destination, even if the destination is closer to an unconnected railroad segment than to a road segment.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:12 pm

CBenson wrote:Just so we are clear, what currently happens is waze routes you to the closest point on the road network to the end of the walking trail and assumes that you will walk the rest of the way. Try routing to 1600 Ritchie Hwy, Arnold, MD 21012.

I may have missed something. Does this happen only with walking trails or all types?I thought there was some issue with Waze knowing what the closest segment was, but couldn't build a route to it if it was disconnected.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:41 pm

I agree with Alan. If the destination is closest to the walking trail, then no penalty will be high enough to prevent routing as there is no other alternative to get you to the destination.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:However, we know there are issues with that method even because the closest segment can be that walking trail, but since it is disconnected, then there is no way to get to that closest spot on the closest segment.

Just so we are clear, what currently happens is waze routes you to the closest point on the road network to the end of the walking trail and assumes that you will walk the rest of the way. Try routing to 1600 Ritchie Hwy, Arnold, MD 21012.

1600Ritchie.png
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:21 pm

jstrangfeld wrote:Can the penalty of a walking trail be made so astronomical that it would never be used (2^32 or 2^64 or something like it) ?

That would require also a fundamental change to the routing engine. It always routes to the closest spot on the closest segment to the destination lat/lon. Since the routing engine uses the concept of "penalties," the only way to completely prevent the routing, in general, is to have an infinite penalty. And that means disconnected, so that the engine can't even consider it. 2^32 < infinity. However, we know there are issues with that method even because the closest segment can be that walking trail, but since it is disconnected, then there is no way to get to that closest spot on the closest segment.

I'm not sure what the right solution is at this point.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby jstrangfeld » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Thanks for the Summary CBenson. I guess what I am struggling with is the possibility of Waze sending you down places it should not if the penalties of other roads are higher to that end it would be interesting to know what those penalties are. Not sure if anyone has a "simple chart" or something like it...

8 Lane uncongested highway = 0 penalty
.
.
.
driving through a median with a red arrow onto train tracks at elevation level 10 (or whatever worse case scenario you can imagine) = 5656362456 penalty?

...what are those penalty numbers? what are the values in between?

Can the penalty of a walking trail be made so astronomical that it would never be used (2^32 or 2^64 or something like it) ?
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:37 pm

I take away the following from the Texas thread:

1) Walking trails like any segment can be routed over if connected to the road network. All non-driveable segments should never be connected to the road network.

2) The discussion suggests that wiki provides sufficient guidance for walking trails. I disagree. I see no specific guidance for walking trails. I only see guidance for non-driveable segments in general. However, walking trails effect routing differently from other non-driveable segments. In other words, routing is effected even if the walking trails are not connected to the road network.

3) Pro and cons of walking trails near streets are mentioned. Pros include preventing walkers and bikers using waze from polluting the data for the street. Cons include problems if bad GPS data cause drivers to be snapped to walking trails. What is not discussed is the con of having routing to destinations near the walking trail affected.

4) Several editors support deleting walking trails from the map although there is some support for including long walking trails. However, it is the long trails that cause the most problems with routing.
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Re: Walking Trails

Postby ctpoole » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:45 pm

We have been having a similar discussion in the Texas forum here:

https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=237&t=64267
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