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These directions are driving me crazy!

Post by willlbr
Hi guys!

I need some help.
I tried everything and I'm still not able to figure out why exactly would the system give these directions. The system is telling me to leave the university and enter from another gate and I don't understand the logic on that. Depending on the place I set my origin point, the system calculates it differently.

Let me show you.

Wrong directions:
27-11-2013 00-26-03.jpg
Wrong directions
(52.79 KiB) Downloaded 392 times
Right directions (origin point a bit closer):
27-11-2013 00-29-48.jpg
Right directions a bit closer
(30.98 KiB) Downloaded 391 times
Can you help me figure out what is wrong here?
https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-51.14 ... =-51.14969
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Post by htahta
That segment is quite short. Segment shorter then (i think) 14m this is avoided in routing (Meaning no U turn a loud) (even green u-turn arrows will not override this) Fix: extend this segment or look what KISS can do in this area.

for waze: i think they have to change there route calculation. If U-turn arrow and short segment. U turn aloud.
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Post by Thortok2000
You're overthinking this.

The start point is northbound and does not allow a u-turn on the short segment because it's a short segment.

If your starting point is this segment: https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =236507498

It's gonna route you north, out to the main roads, east and back around south.

If your starting point is this segment: https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =181924587

It's gonna route you south.

That's all it is.

~

I also notice a nearby segment that should probably be 'parking lot road' and not 'street.' https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =178936629

And the restricted turns on this junction are confusing, possibly inaccurate?:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =178935079
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Last edited by Thortok2000 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thortok2000
Also, how do you get out of this area? The only way out is a one-way facing the wrong way.

https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-51.14 ... =-51.14941

I'm also uncertain why this one turn is restricted:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =237842604

Cause if it is, then why is this segment even labeled two-way in the first place?
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =235959195

But back to the original question:

There's also those 2 segments being marked as private road, and the one just south of it marked street, that could be interfering with routing.

Ultimately I think it's either a bug in livemap about not picking the correct side of the road to start from, or:

Bad timing data for this junction: https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =173422624 and this junction: https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =203189481

I cannot seem to find a route that wants to go through both of those junctions on the same route (from northbound, I'm able to get https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-51.14 ... =-51.14941 to work fine). I'm assuming one or the other or both have a high time value so that routing tries to avoid at least one of them at all times but will not go through both.

I mean, it REALLY doesn't like that junction. Look at this one: https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-51.14 ... =-51.14941 It would rather a u-turn then to go down that road. Traffic data must be awful.
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Post by Thortok2000
Depending on the landmark regulations for your country, I'd start by deleting all 'parking lot' landmarks. All they really do is clutter the map.

Think of this way. Unless someone is going to plug in 'how do I get to this parking lot' then the parking lot doesn't need a landmark. (As a general rule, most users will route to the building the parking lot is next to, and not the parking lot itself.)

Essentially, every road in the college needs to have the same classification. Whether you're going to use parking lot road or private road, they all need to be the same. Most of them are parking lot road so let's stick to that. Here are the segments you need to change to parking lot road:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =178936629
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =235959195
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =235959196
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =235960326
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =235960757
https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =230718135

This segment looks like an accident and should probably be deleted:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =214525723

This segment either needs to be two-way or you need to provide some other way out of the parking lot to the west of it.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.15 ... =178919374

That should pretty much 'fix' the place as much as you're going to be able to. You'll just have to wait for enough Wazers to drive the roads before the routing will fix. I looked at the dates and some of those roads are as new as November 5, so they just don't have much data yet.

Now for just some notes from personal preference:

You have a ton of traffic circles. Obviously I can't confirm in person but it looks to me like simply having two one-way cross streets would work better than a traffic circle.

You don't use a traffic circle JUST because there's an 'island' that looks like a circle in the middle of the road. Typically traffic on the circle gets right of way and those who enter the circle have to yield to those already on it. And you could drive in circles uninterrupted if you want. (Although sometimes a 'main entrance' has those on the circle yield to those coming onto the circle.)

Traffic circles are excessively complicated for the routing server and are best avoided in all places except for where they actually belong.

In many places you have two one-way lanes next to each other instead of one two-way road. This adds additional complications and complexity that may not be necessary, especially when you get to intersections with other roads that are similarly separated.

I don't know what the map looked like before you started making edits back near the beginning of the month, but the general rule is "if it ain't broken don't fix it." Honestly I'm looking at it now and it looks like some sort of airport or something. All those one-way lanes and the traffic circles look excessively complicated. It isn't how I would map the place, but if it works, eh, who cares. I'm curious how it looked before you started working on it, though.

I'm all for editing the map and increasing accuracy, but the more you complicate things the more the routing logic is in danger of not working correctly. In fact, you often have to make things NOT look how they actually are in real life in order for the routing logic to perform correctly, so mapping it with precise detail to exactly how it physically is in real life can turn out to be detrimental.

Just some food for thought.
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Post by Thortok2000
I think one of the main points is the offending segment here: https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-51.14 ... =235958828

This segment was created November 5th so whatever was there before was probably less complex. It also obviously will not have as much traffic data as any of the other segments.

As far as I'm concerned it's either traffic data and/or the unnecessary complexity. If it was my area to edit I'd make it much simpler and I doubt there'd be any further problems after doing so.
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Post by willlbr
Thortok2000's directions are working as expected.

But this is not:
https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-51.14 ... =-51.14969

I also noticed now that some segments are level 1 (not ground) can this influence anything?
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Post by willlbr
Another question: I read through https://www.waze.com/wiki/Private_Installations but I did not understand everything. So should I change all roads to a specific road type? Which should be parking and which should be private?

Do I need to create a landmark for the entire university or a simple road type change would suffice?
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Post by willlbr
Update: thanks for you help on this. A manager from my region has redone many segments and changed all of them to Parking Lot roads. Hopefully this will resolve the routing problems.

Thanks for your tips! I fixed the points you mentioned like broken segments and all. Thanks!
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