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Defaulting Roads to One Way - A Major Bummer

Post by TSinge8
Hey all!

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm editing a pretty raw piece of map in Colorado Springs.

Here's an example - I'm putting "Constitution Ave" through now.
http://www.waze.com/cartouche/?zoom=4&l ... FTFFFFTTTT

There aren't a ton of wazers in the area yet, but we are a proud few! So, what's the problem?

In Colorado Springs, like most areas of the country, our roads are predominantly 2 way roads. Particularly, our "seldom traveled" roads are most likely 2 way roads. While building this map, I've noticed that every "unconfirmed" road I travel on turns into a 1 way road not long after I travel it. What does this mean? There are literally tens of thousands of roads in Colorado Springs that are 2 way roads, but Waze has made them one way roads.

I'd like to propose something then...

Perhaps the server can do something smart here when deciding whether to make an unconfirmed road 1 way or 2 way. Here's my suggested algorithm.
1) If the road hasn't been traveled, and gets traveled once, assume it's a 2 way road (especially if most of the roads near it are also 2 way roads).
2) Set a threshold. If the first 5 people to travel the road, ONLY travel in that one direction, then convert it over to a 1 way road.
3) All bets are off now, do what you will with the directionality of the road based on your current rules.

Benefits:
1) More initial accuracy. Roads that are seldom traveled are usually 2 way roads. (You wind up with 1 way roads primarily due to congestion issues in urban areas - you'd expect more wazers there!)
2) Less map editing required to fix up suburban areas.

Drawbacks:
1) It's possible that some 1 way roads will be identified as 2 way roads temporarily. Perhaps there's a way to limit this by trying to identify if you are in an urban area (then default to 1 ways).

Thoughts?
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Post by WeeeZer14
unwallflower is spot on. GPS navigation is supposed to be an aid, a tool. Not something to follow blindly. Look at your screen (when it is safe) and use your brain to determine if the directions make sense. If you see it routing you to a side street for a block, ignore it! If you know a better way, take it!

I will agree that Waze works best when you want to go somewhere you have gone before. Yes, not helpful so much for vacation, but actually perfect for a normal daily commute which assume lots of users benefit from (I work from home full time so I don't have a standard commute so I am usually "trail blazing" with Waze).
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Post by unwallflower
rl_pl wrote:Do you believe that they have built a national road and made it driven only one way? Even if that was a dual carriageway I would prefer it being registered by waze as a single two-way road because it would be drivable in both directions. Now it is not.
No, I do not believe they built a national road that can only be driven in one direction. My question for you is this: how is Waze supposed to know that's a national, two-way road? A newly recorded road could just as easily be a one-way road in my city. How is it supposed to know the difference?
rl_pl wrote:Even to edit I need to gain the permissions and I will gain them only if I drive them. I like traveling but it takes time and money. Waze could preserve our effort which we can put on registering the new roads rather than driving multiple times the half-registered ones.

I know that I can also become an AM but finally I would end up as an AM of whole country. This is not what I would like.
Waze is community-driven. I don't think their intentions are for you to become AM of an entire country... the idea is to have many area managers of smaller areas. Things won't be perfect until the user base grows.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why roads should default to two-way. That may make things easier for you, but all it would do is throw all that extra work over to areas that have one-way roads. Waze is meant to be conservative... it may be slower that way, but at least that way it learns correctly rather than making baseless assumptions.
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Post by unwallflower
som1else wrote:I would have to agree with jrhamilt on this one. Waze is basically useless for directions in my area if you don't already know where you are going. The main reason for this is there are far too many roads and road segments marked as one way when they are not. Waze therefor tries to route around the one way segments and comes up with some really lousy directions. Half the time it will route me to a side street for a block just to have me return to the same street I was on just to avoid a mis-tagged one way segment of road.

Because of this routing problem I am sure that many would be Wazers are deleting this app because it is not providing them with useful directions.
Edit them. Drive down them the other way. Waze won't be perfect in an area where there aren't many users... it has to learn first.

I think that's better than the alternative... Waze assuming that all roads are two-way, and routing you down a road in a direction you can't actually drive. One would hope that common sense would prevail, but, well... I can't help but be reminded of the article I read this morning about elderly couple who drove INTO a 19th century church because their GPS "told" them to.
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Post by unwallflower
jrhamilt wrote:1) If the road hasn't been traveled, and gets traveled once, assume it's a 2 way road (especially if most of the roads near it are also 2 way roads).
I'm sorry, but I disagree with this entirely. Waze needs to be conservative. It can't make assumptions about directionality and connectivity because, well, you know what they say about assumptions... ;)

If I travel a road once, why should Waze automatically assume it is a two-way road? This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Just because the area you live in is mainly two-way roads doesn't mean that this is the situation everywhere in the world.
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Post by TSinge8
I understand you concern. I believe me assertion (not assumption -grin-) is two fold.

One - most one way roads are highly traveled. They are either divided because they are so busy, or they are in a congested area. In this case, it should not take long to hit any threshold.

Two - most roads that HAVE NOT been traveled (after there has been some amount of activity in a city) are the two way roads.

At any rate, it's probably highly location dependent. We have very few one ways out here in Colorado!
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Post by som1else
Edit them. Drive down them the other way. Waze won't be perfect in an area where there aren't many users... it has to learn first.

I think that's better than the alternative... Waze assuming that all roads are two-way, and routing you down a road in a direction you can't actually drive. One would hope that common sense would prevail, but, well... I can't help but be reminded of the article I read this morning about elderly couple who drove INTO a 19th century church because their GPS "told" them to.
Okay, I see the point that defaulting to two way roads could be problematic and probably lead to just as many issues. As far as editing the map, I've been doing a lot of that and it takes forever. Cartouche needs a lot of improving to help users fix map problems in a more efficient manner since changing road direction on more than one segment at a time tends to break connectivity which then needs to be fixed. And driving both ways down roads I don't typically travel is an extreme waste of gas and time. The idea of half points for road munching seemed like the way to go at first, but this will also leave one way roads half un-munched, so it's not the answer either. I guess I will just keep on editing roads and hope that more wazers come along and stick with it as I see the potential in Waze and hope that it continues to improve it's accuracy and features.
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Post by som1else
I would have to agree with jrhamilt on this one. Waze is basically useless for directions in my area if you don't already know where you are going. The main reason for this is there are far too many roads and road segments marked as one way when they are not. Waze therefor tries to route around the one way segments and comes up with some really lousy directions. Half the time it will route me to a side street for a block just to have me return to the same street I was on just to avoid a mis-tagged one way segment of road.

Because of this routing problem I am sure that many would be Wazers are deleting this app because it is not providing them with useful directions.
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Post by rlpl
I'm just trying to prove that waze is useful. Now I can't navigate more than about 100 km because there is always a one-way road or a one-way junction. And even if I can navigate one way I cannot make the route back home. Somebody has to drive there and there are no volunteers. Without a trip we usually have not enough permissions to fix the road. I like editing the maps but an average user will launch waze once and tell "hey, this software does not work, it does not navigate me from city A to city B, and I am not going to draw the maps, I just want to turn on and use."
freddiechopin wrote:recorded and un-edited roads are NOT displayed and NOT used in navigation?
Yes they are! They are sometimes visible and sometimes not but always used in navigation, if they have correct directionality and correct junctions. This is rare without the human intervention but it happens. It would happen more often if waze marked all segments and junctions as two-way by default.
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My previous login name was rl_pl.