External Links Copyright Discussion

Discussion for the unofficial, community-developed addons, extensions and scripts built for the Waze Map Editor.

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Discussion for the unofficial, community-developed addons, extensions and scripts built for the Waze Map Editor.

DO NOT START a new thread unless it is about a new idea. Keep discussion of existing tools within the main thread for that tool.

The official index of these tools is the Community Plugins, Extensions and Tools wiki page.

Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby doctorkb » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:42 pm

jasonh300 wrote:
AdreNalinGuY wrote:CBenson, this is clearly not because of copyright. The removal of the live map link doesn't make no sense. There is something else in between but we will never know what. They don't treat us respectfully for what we do for them, we don't have to know much. Do your job and shut up. At least this is how I feel.


As far as the Livemap link, I don't know. There's no reason for that to have been removed.


Oyyo has actually clarified this -- removing the whole "other maps" section of code was the most expedient way to do this, and he didn't have time to cut out just the non-Waze services features.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:38 pm

AdreNalinGuY wrote:CBenson, this is clearly not because of copyright. The removal of the live map link doesn't make no sense. There is something else in between but we will never know what. They don't treat us respectfully for what we do for them, we don't have to know much. Do your job and shut up. At least this is how I feel.


The removal of the links to Google and Bing and other external sources is absolutely 100% about copyright. We've been warned not to use copyrighted sources for years. It's been in the Wiki for years. An entire country lost all its maps because of copyright infringement before and we don't want that to ever happen again.

As far as the Livemap link, I don't know. There's no reason for that to have been removed.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:07 pm

Before posting a complaint about the removal of external data links, think about how you'd feel if your entire country's map was deleted. http://blog.waze.com/2010/08/thanks-and ... gy-to.html
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby Olestas » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:57 pm

Sometimes it is just too easy to forget that thia is not a game :)
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:49 pm

AdreNalinGuY wrote:CBenson, this is clearly not because of copyright. The removal of the live map link doesn't make no sense. There is something else in between but we will never know what. They don't treat us respectfully for what we do for them, we don't have to know much. Do your job and shut up. At least this is how I feel.

Well as noted above you can use the internal livemap link. It seems to me its just easier to say no links. There likely is something else in between that we will never know. But it is not necessarily something reasoned. The lawyers say no links to external sources. Then by the time that edict makes its way down to a script author, the livemap link disappears. Not a reasoned response, but still because of copyright type issues. As Kentsmith notes, maybe it can be reinstated as it shouldn't be an issue.

AdreNalinGuY wrote:Here maps and OpenStreet, for double checking street names, address locations (Sometimes even GMaps has addresses in completely wrong locations, I had one case when the address was miles away on the other end of the blvd.) Here Maps and OpenStreet were pretty accurate. Sometimes there were new subdivisions with street names added in Here Maps and OpenStreet when Waze and GMaps didn't have it.

This is getting a lot closer to the copyright issues that seem to be making waze nervous.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:44 pm

AdreNalinGuY wrote:kentsmith9, There is not much difference between ToolBox now and validator, plus it may be still helpfull for you cause country managers have a lot more tools in toolbox than Rank 3 editors like me.

You are correct that for some of us the tool provides other highly useful functions.

AdreNalinGuY wrote:CBenson, this is clearly not because of copyright. The removal of the live map link doesn't make no sense. There is something else in between but we will never know what. They treat us like minorities, we don't have to know much. Do your job and shut up. At least this is how I feel.

The links to other mapping tools was in a gray copyright area that Waze/Google is not willing to risk given the size of the company. The Live Map link was not. I have not yet spoken to Oyyo on that particular link removal, but my assumption is that can likely be added back in. Note that Oyyo is very busy with real life (like many of us) and may have just removed them all not thinking that Live Map is a Waze tool without copyright restriction considerations.

Maybe we just need to ask him to add it back and not blow up over it. ;)

I have spoken to Waze staff over my 2.5 years of editing. I have been to Israel and spent a few days with their management and editors. I know for a fact that they greatly appreciate all the work and effort of the editing community. I realize some actions may feel as though they don't, but sometimes it is a combination of circumstances that leads to a result that may not make sense to us outsiders.

Don't forget that every one of us has 100% control of whether we are doing any work inside of the Waze maps. If you are too frustrated, just don't log in anymore. Save yourself an ulcer. :mrgreen:
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby KuniaKid » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:59 pm

Looks to me like Waze is gathering data for a legal argument.

https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=105736

At any rate, for those of use that used the link to submit errors/corrections to Google, this looks promising.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby ctpoole » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:52 pm

Couldn't we at least have the link to Livemap back since it is part of Waze? That was the button I used the most anyway. That and Google Map Editor since I was constantly having to fix things that were broken in Google so that Waze routing worked.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:14 am

qwaletee wrote:If Waze is found to have infringing data, they're screwed. If not, they aren't.

But it will be a sideshow to the only real question: is their data infringing or not infringing?

No. This is not how copyright works - at least in the US (and the US doesn't have much other protections for data). You have to have copying to have copyright infringement. So you can have the exact same data, but if you independently created it then it is not copyright infringement, while if it was copied from someone else then it can be copyright infringement. What matters is how the data is created, not just whether it turns out to be same as what someone else created. So if waze can say they discouraged things that would promote copying, that is a defense.
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Re: [Script] WME Toolbox (>1.4.2.8)

Postby tonestertm » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:55 am

Just a small bit of perspective: until a little over a year ago (time flies!), these buttons didn't even exist. We did just fine before that. Did they save time? Undoubtedly. Can we edit without them? Unquestionably. Five years' prior experience proved that.

Edit: typo

Edit again: Yes, some of the capability (OSM, LiveMap) was in Addons before it was in Toolbox, but to my recollection, Bing, Google, Mapmaker came later.
Last edited by tonestertm on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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