Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby davielde » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:38 am

I think that a more beneficial approach would be to question whether it would be possible for Waze to expose update history for segments and places in some fashion, which would allow editors to see what has been modified and when.

Even then, getting the map into a usable state should be the goal regardless of who last edited a segment, what rank they are/were, when they did it, or whether or not they used a script. Keep in mind as well that what is currently a wrong construction may have been a best practice last year! In addition, as both WME and the various scripts evolve, we have become much more aware of different things that are considered issues now but never were known in the past.
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Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:50 am

Automated batch scripts operated on a large scale by high-ranking editors (typically Rank 6) can modify a significant fraction of segments in a given region. When this happens, the previous last-edited-by username, rank, and date are permanently overwritten.

This can be a problem, for four reasons:

1. It gives junior editors pause. As we all know, inelegant or downright wrong constructions are still not hard to find on the Waze maps; but when these constructions show as recently modified by a Rank 6 editor, junior editors wonder if they were intentional, or worse, consider them models to be emulated.

2. It frustrates efforts to track down or assess editing by specific editors. For example, if an uninformed editor has made a number of incorrect edits requiring repair, the salvage effort can involve searching for all segments modified by that editor. A script that destroys modification data renders this salvage technique impossible.

3. It is no longer possible to identify the author of an unusual construction in order to contact him/her and understand why it was designed as it was.

4. When evaluating whether an area needs rework, it is no longer possible to weight the quality of the existing segments by the rank of the editors who last modified them.

Questions:

- Is it possible for a script to preserve last-edited data rather than permanently overwriting it?

- Under what circumstances is that appropriate?

True, once a script has modified a segment, it is not accurate to say it was not modified. However, if as a result of the script a damaged, inelegant, or mysterious construction is now marked as the work of a Rank 6 editor who doesn't actually know anything about it, I would suggest that is even more inaccurate.

Is it not the lesser evil to preserve the original last-edited data when running large-scale batch scripts?
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:14 pm

Thanks for all the responses!!!

We all agree that improving the map is the ultimate goal. But as I tried to articulate in the OP I believe that the last-edited data have real value for accomplishing this goal.

Many times over my editing career -- including just yesterday -- I have chosen not to rework an odd construction but to contact the last editor instead because I respected that editor or his rank, or noticed that the construction was recent. Likewise, I have looked with more suspicion on puzzling segments that were last edited two years ago by an editor I don't recognize who is still Rank 1 after all this time. To me this approach helps take us towards better maps. I can't be the only one who uses the last-edited information this way...can I?

Anyway, as it is not possible to preserve last-edited data, the discussion is moot. But I hope that at least I've raised awareness that running big batch jobs over a large area has some side effects worth considering. Thanks again!
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:36 pm

krystyan14 wrote:hola amigos quisiera saber quien o como puedo actualizar los conjuntos de viviendas con nombre sin colocarles como privado, o en que foro puedo discutir esto muchas gracias.

Por favor visite este foro de ayuda en español.
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby iainhouse » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:25 am

It's definitely not possible for the scripts to leave the last-edited details untouched.

All the scripts that operate on the map do so by emulating single actions that are already possible in WME. They don't have any "special" methods by which they can modify the map in any way you can't do manually.

The flipside to your argument is: would you approve of editors making mass-edits and not leaving any trace behind? If I use a script that operates on a lot of segments, I have to be aware that I'm leaving my name behind and I am, therefore, somewhat responsible for those segments. If I miss something that I should have spotted, I then face double embarrassment - for not spotting it in the first place and for putting my name to the mistake. :oops:

Mass-edit tools are a valuable resource in the right hands - but that doesn't absolve us of the responsibility for checking the details once we've cleared the "easy" stuff. :)
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:00 am

The biggest examples of mass edits are actually in the Tool Box today. Higher ranks have the ability to simplify segments, remove unnecessary nodes, add nodes to loops, fix unconfirmed turns, fix reverse connections, fix dead-end loops, and fix unterminated roads. The set locks script is commonly used at a very high zoom level to be more efficient in returning unsecured roads to their community agreed setting.

As davielde stated, we are problem stuck with constant evolving mapping techniques, only tracking the last edit, and trying to improve the overall map as much as possible.
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby laurenthembprd » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:49 pm

Timbones wrote:
sketch wrote:Deeper segment edit history may or may not be planned.

"Soon"


Bonjour,

Merci, nous attendrons donc cela, patiemment.
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby sketch » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:53 am

I don't think it's possible. The bigger issue is that high rank editors are leaving bad maps behind.
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby sketch » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:34 pm

You are not alone in using the last-edited data. Indeed, Toolbox's integrated Fancy Permalink function adds a PM link next to the last editor name for this reason.

Deeper segment edit history may or may not be planned.
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Re: Should automated scripts preserve last-edited data?

Postby taco909 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:16 am

sketch wrote:Deeper segment edit history may or may not be planned.

This would be extremely welcome... whether or not we can have post-save "un-do" or not, at the very least, the SM and higher should be able to review multiple recent edits... and it would be very nice if L3 and higher had access to at least one "un-do"

I've been encountering a rash of extraneous junction nodes. Most of these are in a location where a PLR could possibly have been attached, but there is nothing there.

The ability to step back through at least one "un-do" could be helpful in restoring damaged areas.
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