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To Bow-Tie or Not To Bow-Tie

Post by subs5
I have heard chatter on dislike of bow-tie intersections.

So trying to figure out what the consensus is on whether they should be eradicated in the Mid-Atlantic

The one benefit that they have is to make it easy to have a split road allow a U-turn in one direction but not the other.

Here is an example of a a bow tie with u-turn prevented. This is not the classic bow tie since there is a left turn lane, but both the turn lane and that portion of the bow tie have U-turn prevented.

You can also set up a u-turn lane like here. Or a u-turn prevention lane like here.

Our RC has asked that this be put up for discussion so feel free to add your comments and thoughts.
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Post by CBenson
I'm ambivalent about bow-ties. Currently they do give the ability to get an actual U-turn instruction rather than the double turn-left instruction. Functionally they make sense to me as they reduce an intersection to its key movements. I would think this would result in more accurate turn times captured by waze. However, waze staff currently does not state that bowties result in better data capture and I know of no recent community research that shows this to be true either. There are some disadvantages to bowties such as changing the angle of one segment can have many unintended consequences. Other disadvantages are that they can be ugly in the app and they seem to encourage new editors to add all sorts of unnecessary AGCs. Personally, I haven't added a bow tie in years, but I haven't been changing working bow-ties when I come across them either.

As for picking a preferred method for allowing U-turns in one direction but not the other, I had been hoping in vain that waze would provide a real solution before we needed to have this conversation essentially about which hack is better.
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Post by CBenson
Anyone interested in U-turn control may want to see the discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=276&t=108731&start=30#p1216747
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Post by CBenson
It likely will be. One of the examples that staff has given for the use of the junction box is to replace the bow tie. But let's see how the junctions box work in beta before determining goals.
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Post by jr1982jr
Before I can make a semi-educated response, I would like to know what the replacement would be for the regular u-turn on the divided highway. The turn left x2 doesn't *feel* right when driving, like here.

For those divided highways with separated turn lanes, I do not see a requirement for the bowtie such as here.

Additionally, I am curious how the other regions are handling these intersections. I personally like the bowtie to deal w/ u-turns allowed and disallowed. I think it is just as important for those u-turns allowed situations to give proper directions. What is the problem that the "dislike" is attempting to address?
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Post by jr1982jr
I came across a UR just now where they reporter is complaining about the bowtie in the app. I only bring it here because it is timely. I think the angles problem can be solved with patience when setting up the turns and we need to slow ourselves down and make it look and sound as close to the real situation as we can.
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Post by jr1982jr
I'm not so sure that Broken Land should be a box, but I am sure there are other examples that should. I'm not aware of any addresses off that northern segment (from 29 north).
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Post by mtb2314
I agree that bowties have advantages for creating explicit turn restrictions for all segments into the junction. And while I agree that it can sometimes mean a UR about how the app displays or a new editor trying to "fix" it, there are also disadvantages to box intersections (like a MP where someone made a U-turn and the GPS track was too far away from the allowed segment).

I have even seen the segments inside the box (at an intersection with two divided roads) where the internal box segments are two-way, to allow a u-turn on the near side of the box instead of the far side. Here is an example:

Permalink

But back to bowties, there are some around here that are working well and don't generate MP's or UR's.
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Post by ply8808
Wiki reference:
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Bowtie#Bow_tie
I agree with Carl on not focusing on bowties as a project if they are causing no issues.
However, if there are URs/MPs we should consider other options to avoid adding items such as AGCs or other hacks.
If following guidelines you should be able to resolve most issues without overthinking them.
Also be sure to refer back to the wiki as things change and we should all be kept up to date with new tools that may resolve these issues.
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