NV Place Standards  Topic is solved

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Re: NV Place Standards  Topic is solved

Postby dbwiddis » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:29 am

MojaveCactusMonkey wrote:We are trying to standardize the naming of all the various public agencies ...

OK. Sounds like a great idea. But many of your examples below seem very confusing and contradict your standard in some cases, so I'm not quite following.

The names need to work well with instant search, regular search, and to be clear and concise in the map display.

Many of the "wrong driving directions" URs I handle are because people just took the first search result when they searched for a place. This often occurs when there are multiple Place Points for various places (taxi stand, valet parking, self parking, drop off, etc.) and when the more specific name is listed second (e.g., SuperWazer Hotel and Casino - Taxi Stand) people end up accidentally navigating to the wrong place. I'm all for your standard of making the more specific part of the name first, so it's obvious in the search results, as you state here:

Places which are part of a larger encompassing place (i.e. place points for lot in a university area, Separate ER entrances in a hospital area, etc.) should be named with their unique name followed by a hyphen and the name of the larger area they belong to. For example "Student Parking Lot C - StudyHard University"


That said, it seems simple enough. And we're only 3 paragraphs in. Can we just end the standard here?

But you go on to list many specific examples and I'm losing the simple, elegant consistency stated above.
“Reno City Hall”

Why not "City Hall - Reno" which puts the more specific part first, like you proposed?
“US Social Security Office - Las Vegas”

Agreed, this is consistent with what you stated.

"Washoe County Sheriff’s Office"

Why not "Sherrif's Office - Washoe County" which puts the more specific part first, like you proposed?
"Henderson PD - East Police Station"

No. Assuming there are a lot of "Henderson PD - <more specific location>" places, this is completely opposite your "more specific first" standard.

“Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department - Northeast Area Command”

This doesn't put the more specific part first, like you proposed. I'm really confused as to what "standard" you are using for these names since you are going back and forth.

“Fire Station – “followed by the City/Agency Name or abbreviation and followed by the station number.

OK, I agree, Fire Station first, City second, number third... but then you give these examples:
"FS-1 Las Vegas Fire & Rescue"
"RFD-11 Reno Fire Station"
“Elko Volunteer Fire Station #2”
“Carson City Fire Station 51”

These are not consistent with the standard you propose.Two are number first, city second, fire station third. The other two are City first, Fire Station second, number third. Which of these 3 different ways of doing this are you proposing as the standard?

Start the name with CDP or Station name, then append “Post Office”.

If it has a specific name, but if the name is the city name, it will be hard for people to see the "Post Office" and they'll navigate to lots of post offices when they want to just go to a city.
"Downtown Las Vegas Post Office" / Alt name “USPS Downtown Las Vegas.

I don't like the first one. You won't even see the words "Post Office" in the search box, it'll truncate it after Downtown Las Vegas... What happened to the proposal of "more specific first"? Isn't "Post Office - Downtown Las Vegas" better?

What happened to the hyphens in the "USPS Downtown Las Vegas". Shouldn't it be "USPS - Downtown Las Vegas" to match your standard? Shouldn't that be the primary name and not the alt name?

Description box would read “89101”

Actually when I search for post offices, I usually search by zip code (and I expect this is the most likely use case for people wazing to post offices). When I want my local post office, I want to type in my zip code, which may be slightly different than the zip code of the post office, which may serve multiple zip codes. The "Crossroads Post Office" is in zip code 89130 but also delivers mail to 89131. We need to make sure searches for both zip codes return the correct result.

Hospital/Medical category only if open 24 hours. Hospital would be area place with stop point at main door. ER would be listed as “ER-” in front of the same exact name of the hospital. If urgent care would be listed as Hospital/Medical category then it needs to be 24 hour walk in care.

I agree with this.

We are using the Southwest standard for Arco and am/pm stores attached which is named Arco ampm.

Is this a proposal to use this standard or are you stating that we are already using this standard? If it's a proposal, I disagree. If it's already a standard, where is a link to the "Southwest standard for Arco and am/pm" so I can comment on it? Who made that decision? I can't find it on the wiki and a search of the "US Southwest" forums using "ampm" as a keyword only returns this thread. Why are you placing the acronym for Atlantic Richfield Company in mixed case, when their corporate website clearly places it in all caps everwhere it's referred to? The ampm site clearly establishes that ARCO (all caps) and ampm (all lowercase) are the registered trademarks of the respective business entities.

Throughout our identifying places in Waze we need to ensure we do not use information from 3rd party sources to include other gps apps.

This statement is too general to be useful.
  • You need to define who "we" is. Is it map editor, or waze users adding the places, or more senior map editors/area managers reviewing an edit put in by a new user/editor?
  • You need to define what you mean by a third party source (it's not intuitively obvious)... I am assuming you mean we should only get information from an official company website. But many companies do not have a website, and only advertise themselves on third party apps. Should we delete any Place that we cannot find an official company website for?
I think it's far better to state spefic reasons why we are not legally permitted to use some (most) third party sources, in particular, that the terms and conditions/license agreements of most other apps/websites specifically prohibit the use of that information. We should state that we must respect the license agreements of any source we use for information.

Utilizing official resources and company websites are ideal.

I agree 100% with this statement (well, 99%... I'll quibble with the grammatical appropriateness of 'utilizing' vs. 'using'), and it should probably go first... but your above statement that we "do not use... third party" seems to indicate this is mandatory, not just "ideal". You need to entirely rework this section to state the reasons we want to use official sources (more current information, official names, consolidated checklist to verify multiple places by a checklist rather than hit-and miss, etc.) and the reasons we can not use some other sources (license agreements... not sure if there are any others.)

Be sure to take the time to put the stop point at the front door / entrance. Follow up by placing the waze house number so navigation by address will also be accurate.

Does this conflict with other guidance that if you put one house number on a street you need to put them all? Should one endeavor to do all Places on a street once they edit one?
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Re: NV Place Standards

Postby dbwiddis » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:54 am

MojaveCactusMonkey wrote:So there won't be cookie cutter answers for certain catagories of emergency services/basic services listed below.

I thought I understood the purpose of this thread as establishing a statewide "standard" of consistently naming things the same way statewide. But now it seems you want the "standard" to be inconsistent statewide, but based entirely on local naming? I guess I'm confused as to what you're asking for feedback on. Feedback on how we should do everything the same way as a state? Or just data collection?

It seems you've researched enough online to get consistent names for various municipalities, and fire stations, and post offices. Should we just say "name it how it's named on its official website" as the standard?

... So only full post offices....

Buried in all the naming discussions are a few tidbits like this, and the 24/7 requirement for hospital categories. Are you seeking consensus on rules for categorizing Places? Can you separate those in a list/table separate from all the naming discussion so they don't get lost?

Other than the bits about what it takes to be a post office or a hospital, I guess I'm just really not clear on what you're asking for us to provide in this thread that you've not already provided in your examples.
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NV Place Standards

Postby MojaveCactusMonkey » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:11 am

Place Naming Standards

We are trying to standardize the naming of all the various public agencies and facilities, and are looking for feedback from the Nevada editing community. This makes search results more consistent and useful, and helps the map to look more professional and uniform. The names need to work well with instant search, regular search, and to be clear and concise in the map display. Once we have some consensus, we will put on NV wiki and follow these guidelines when naming the places described below. Places which are part of a larger encompassing place (i.e. place points for lot in a university area, Separate ER entrances in a hospital area, etc.) should be named with their unique name followed by a hyphen and the name of the larger area they belong to. For example "Student Parking Lot C - StudyHard University" This does not include shopping centers which have leased shop space and are separate from the ownership/management of the shopping center.
We have categories listed in https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Places/Revision and all are open for discussion here IN NEVADA regarding consistant naming. What we are looking for is standard for what that city’s informed residents would call it.

Here is a suggestion of what we could list as standards for Nevada:
Government Agencies
(We could list all the Nevada major city websites in wiki) All places for the agencies could be named according to the standards of the city. For example:
City/County/State/US Offices: City/County/Nevada/US Name followed by City Hall or department/agency as appropriate. Locked at 3. For example:
“Reno City Hall”
“US Social Security Office - Las Vegas”
“Bunkerville Community Center” as found on official website http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/Depts/parks/Services/Pages/community-centers.aspx
“Clark County Detention Center”

Police/Sheriff Stations:
City, Agency or Division Name followed by Police[Sheriff] Station. Locked at 3. For example:
"Washoe County Sheriff’s Office" found here: http://www.washoesheriff.com/
"Henderson PD - East Police Station" found here:
http://www.cityofhenderson.com/police/about---police/police-station-locations
“Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department - Northeast Area Command” found:
http://www.lvmpd.com/FindNearestCommand.aspx
“Nye County Sheriff’s Office Substation” primary / “Nye County Sheriff Central Area Command” alternative found: http://nyecountysheriff.net/Contact.html


Fire Stations:
“Fire Station – “followed by the City/Agency Name or abbreviation and followed by the station number. Locked at least at 4. For example:
"FS-1 Las Vegas Fire & Rescue" found : http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/files/Fire_General_Info.pdf
"RFD-11 Reno Fire Station" : http://www.reno.gov/government/departments/fire-department/operations/fire-stations
“Elko Volunteer Fire Station #2” found: http://www.ci.elko.nv.us/pubsafety/public_safety.htm
“Carson City Fire Station 51” found: http://www.carson.org/index.aspx?page=302

United States Postal Service:
Utilizing the USPS locator https://tools.usps.com/go/POLocatorAction.action We would list only the full servie post offices. CPU’s and locations with only stamp booklets only do not qualify as a full service post office. Start the name with CDP or Station name, then append “Post Office”. Place the City name and the ZIP code of the Post Office in the Description box, so it will be viewable in the app GO page. Alternate name should be “USPS-xxx”. In the Description field we would list the 5 digit zip code for that office. Locked at 3. For example:
Primary name
"Downtown Las Vegas Post Office" / Alt name “USPS Downtown Las Vegas. Description box would read “89101”
“Carson City Post Office" / Alt name “USPS Carson City Post Office” Description box xxxxx
"Tahoe Vista Post Office"/Alt name “USPS Tahoe Vista Post Office” Description box xxxxx

US VA Hospitals/Centers/Clincs:
Should be named with their official name as the primary name. For VA hospitals/medical centers "(US Veterans Only)" should be added to the end of the primary name, and as the first line of the description. In the primary name "VA" should be expanded as "Veterans Affairs", so as not to cause a TTS conflict with Virginia. Names can be shortened to remove extraneous words, for example replace "Campus of the" from the official name with a hyphen (-). Any colloquial names should be added as alt names, so they are returned in search results, and also at the beginning of the description, so they are visible on the place preview page in the client. Locked at least at 4 when complete. Example:
“Veterans Affairs- Southern Nevada Healthcare System (US Veterans Only)”
And
“ER-Veterans Affairs- Southern Nevada Healthcare System” apparantly they will provide ER for anyone for stablizing care so can be listed as ER

Hospital/ER
Listed exactly as found on the website. Hospital/Medical category only if open 24 hours. Hospital would be area place with stop point at main door. ER would be listed as “ER-” in front of the same exact name of the hospital. If urgent care would be listed as Hospital/Medical category then it needs to be 24 hour walk in care. Otherwise listed as offices category using the exact name as found on company website. Locked when 100% complete at at least 4. Example:
“Sunrise Hospital & Medical Center” for the hospital
“ER - Sunrise Hospital & Medical Center” for the emergency room
“Las Vegas Urgent Care” listed as hospital/medical ONLY if 24 hours, otherwise Offices category

Gas Stations:
Please refer to https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Gas_Stations ... as_Station when naming gas stations. In NV we will lock to 3 once complete to prevent tampering as suggested in the wiki.
Naming Standards:
Utilize the company website for station locator. In particular we want to name stations with same brand close by/across the street from another by identifying as the wiki indicates such as Chevron - Eastbound and Chevron - Westbound. Pay attention to naming standard listed in the wiki regarding convenience store attached utilizing alt name field. We are using the Southwest standard for Arco and am/pm stores attached which is named Arco ampm. Be sure to use gas station as primary category followed by other categories like “convenience store.” It should be noted that basic parking lot roads are expected through the gas station like listed in the wiki.

Other Notes:
Throughout our identifying places in Waze we need to ensure we do not use information from 3rd party sources to include other gps apps. Utilizing official resources and company websites are ideal. Be sure to take the time to put the stop point at the front door / entrance. Follow up by placing the waze house number so navigation by address will also be accurate. House number stop points should also be identified as listed in wiki https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/House_Numbers_in_WME#Setting_the_Stop_Point

ALL EDITORS are welcome to make suggestions here by replying during the open forum period:
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Re: NV Place Standards

Postby MojaveCactusMonkey » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:59 am

Thank you dbwiddis for your response.

Ok to be clear, this is a DRAFT. I am seeking local responses. This forum is NOT NV wiki policy yet. The point is to get feedback from locals. There is NO consistant way to list like US government as local municipalities and counties have different standards. However in NV the locals may have consistant ways THEY name their own services. The point is to share how locals name them. In the case of a chain store kind of business, it would also make sense that we label these businesses as their own official website lists their store and/or how the sign reads on their sign out in front of their business. The entire point of this is to make it usable for locals. So there won't be cookie cutter answers for certain catagories of emergency services/basic services listed below.

Remember if searching the catagory name in Waze we don't need to list the catagory name as part of the name of the place point UNLESS that's how the locals call it.

Consistancy in Waze should be for these key catagories I posted specifically.
How does the municipality list city hall on their website?
How does the Sheriff's office/police department list itself on official website?
How does the post office list itself on it's website and on their front wall/front door?

Due to the variety of naming methods in each area is exactly why we would lock these important service catagories once 100% correct and complete.

Waze results will bring up catagory based on how close they are. Try it on the app. Try the different search engines for their results for each of the catagories here. Fire station catagory brings up Firehouse sub and Firefly Tapas Kitchen on one search engine. Hmmm....

Government Agencies:
This is the most obscure of my catagories. Again, if seeking catagory "city hall" in Waze what comes up? Try the different search engines. City Hall catagory is searchable and will find Las Vegas and Henderson city hall. Some also find Pinball Hall of Fame and Zappos HQ and Superior Home Health.
The bottom line: What does the city hall website call itself? What is on their sign out in front? Typing in City Hall Henderson brings up the Waze result of "Henderson City Hall" which is also the same as their sign on the front lawn.

Police/Sheriff Stations:
Review the websites listed in the original. What does the different cities or what do the locals call their police department or sheriff's office? If you use the catagory "police station" you would want the name of the office to come up as the locals call it. If Las Vegas Metro Police Department is too long, then an alt name like LVMPD Headquarters could be an alternate name. What do the locals call it? There's no point to calling it "Sheriff's Office-Pahrump" as police station pulls it up

Fire Station:
If the locals call their fire station FS-1 Las Vegas Fire & Rescue" and that's what is found on their official website, then this is what we should list. Review the websites I listed. There is no consistancy between the different locations. But that is what the locals call these stations. Search for catagory "fire station" in Waze and you get closest fire station. Other search engines pull up things like "firehouse subs", "firefly tapas kitchen" based on proximity. Bottom line, what do the locals call it?

United States Postal Service:
What is on the front wall of the post office? That's what should be in Waze under catagory post office. Who types in "Downtown Las Vegas Post Office" anyhow? I would think that most users would type in "Post Office" in the search box and EXPECT the closest post office to come up. They don't want a place that sells stamps only when they type in post office I think. So only full post offices. The description box will show up when user clicks on the selection in the search list. If you're proposing to utilize the zip code as an alternate name, I don't see a problem with that. I do see people typing in Post office or usps into the search box. They don't need to see the word Post Office in front of Post Office-Downtown Las Vegas.

Gas Stations:
I agree with your ARCO. I thought I corrected that. Should read as the company lists their own stations consistantly. ARCO ampm is what our RC Jemay has established. Some have disagreed with making a point of listing "for profit" companies, and I agree to an extent as a volunteer editor. But the point of usability and searchability for our local wazers. So if listing a gas station, list it the way the company lists it. Gas stations are important in Waze as the app tracks gas prices. This is why I added this catagory compared to other "for profit" catagories.

Third party source comment: I agree with making it more clear why we don't use third party apps, gps programs, yelp, google etc. Also we can mention that many of these third party sources are also edited by volunteers, and are often wrong anyhow.

Does this conflict with other guidance that if you put one house number on a street you need to put them all? Should one endeavor to do all Places on a street once they edit one?
I'm referring specifically to finishing listing a place point/area. If we're going to put the stop point for the place at the front door, then it makes sense to complete this task by making the house number match as appropriate, and placing the house number stop point at the location where navigation can access from both directions of traffic if allowable, or the street intersection if appropriate.


Again, constructive feedback is desired and wanted here.

Let's get some example websites reflecting what locals call these destinations if I've not already done it.
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