dbraughlr wrote: Having the period is good. I couldn't say what is usual, though. I've not seen Conn that I recall. So I think CT is the usual. NY, DC, NJ, and NC, are prevalent.

I know every one I've seen has been the old-fashioned way, with initial caps only and perhaps a period. (Obviously, there won't be lowercase letters with two-word states etc., but we can still use periods.) I know I've seen "Ala.", "Tenn.", "Ky.", "Ind.", probably others...

Of course, these things come by only occasionally; it'd require the local knowledge of a number of editors to find out exactly what is used. (Or maybe it's in a part of the MUTCD I haven't found yet. Maybe I should try that first.) We could probably find some by combing exit signs along Interstates that run near state borders. I don't think we need to worry about Alaska or Hawaii, but for the rest, I think we should come up with a definitive list to (1) submit to TTS and (2) put to Wiki as a standard.

Some examples:
Ala. = Alabama
D.C. = should probably just say D C
Ky. = Kentucky
La. = Louisiana
N.C. = North Carolina
N.Y. = New York
Tenn. = Tennessee

We could probably set all the two-word states today and be done with that much. If we need to say the letters instead, just use it without periods. Some states will be more difficult though; for instance, I've heard of both "Penna." and "Pa." used for Pennsylvania. Those are the kinds of things we'll need more info for.

PesachZ wrote: In NY the signs for
Connecticut use CT
New York = NY

What signs I've seen use the old-fashioned abbreviations. My reasoning for using those, with periods, is not only to match signs, although it would match the ones I've seen. It's also to prevent conflict. If we make a rule and a chart saying, "Use the following abbreviations wherever a state name is used on a ramp sign: Ala. (Alabama), Alaska (Alaska), Ariz. (Arizona), Ark. (Arkansas), [...] N.C. (North Carolina), N.D. (North Dakota), [....]", we can have a definitive list.

We can go on all day about which two-letter USPS abbreviations conflict and which don't, but it's a lot easier to adopt a list that won't conflict with anything. The only TTS abbreviation I can think of that uses a period right now is "St." for "Saint".

I propose we use the AP Stylebook abbreviations reproduced in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... reviations

qwaletee wrote:sketch,

Are you saying to use these abbreviations even when BGS doesn't (i.e., a different abbreviation or fully spelled out)?

Yes and no. I would say to use these abbreviations even when the BGS uses a different abbreviation, but not when the BGS spells it out.

The reason to standardize on a particular list of abbreviations is that we can get that list set up as TTS abbreviations and guarantee that it will work that way.

I don't see any reason not to request multiple per state, but only ones that are used and that incorporate periods. For instance, I've heard of both "Pa." and "Penna." for Pennsylvania, and I don't see any reason not to include both.

Where a BGS spells it out, though, I imagine there's a reason for that, so I would say just spell it out. I imagine that's mostly the case where a ramp is signed for a particular state generally, so like, "to I-275 N / Indiana". To me, that's similar to the rule by which we spell it out in "The Avenue" but not in "Jackson Ave".

Guys, that's why we would be submitting them with periods exclusively. So "Pa." can be used for Pennsylvania, but "Pa" can still be used for country roads named after grandfathers. "Ct." is fine for Connecticut because "Ct" with no period is used for Court. "Del." can be used for Delaware while "Del" can be used for Del Rey Blvd. "Neb." can be used for Nebraska, leaving "NE" for northeast.

I don't know why you'd need to capitalize "IN" or "OR" in a road name, but still, the English word should be expected behavior. Instead, we should use "Ind." and "Ore.", leaving "IN", "OR", "Ind", and "Ore" for other uses.

None of these will cause a conflict at all, because as of today, the ONLY places we use periods in road names in the US are "St." and "Ste." and maybe "Dr." Maybe one or two others. Nothing else should have a period anyway, so we are by nature adding zero conflict here.

txemt wrote:Rev.

For "Reverend"?

Adding it to the suggestion list on your behalf with a period to avoid possible conflict.

Kayos_On_The_Road wrote:Thanks GizmoGuy411. I was using the wiki link immediately above the google spreadsheet link. The current list actually shows entries for both PTS (Points) and PT (Point), but neither work as they show as n/a.

Looking forward to having these resolved as "Divers" is fairly common in my driving area and sounds pretty dumb when the signposts show Diversion.

Kayos

Those will need to be fixed in the editor. "Divers" is a common English word. We cannot have every "Divers Ln" pronounced as "Diversion Lane".

That's possible. Although if the signs actually say "Diversion" and you'd have to edit them all to add the period anyway, is it worth it?

doctorkb wrote:Sketch:
Divers is on the list of CanadaPost abbreviations that has been advocated as the "official" abbreviation list for Canada for several years.

*If* there exists a "Divers Lane", it could even be made better by "Diver's Lane" which is more likely to be the correct spelling anyhow.

Not necessarily. Apostrophes disappear from proper names all the time. You and I both should be aware of that:

"BUS" is also a proper word, but in all caps, it says "Business" -- how is that different?

You answered your own question. Because it's in all caps. If there was a "Bus Drivers Rd" you would type "Bus", not "BUS".

Also "Nat" is supposedly pronounced "National" -- but what about a street named after Nat King Cole?

The argument that "because it's a legitimate word" doesn't hold.

Just because something is in the Big List doesn't mean we want it there. It's a testing list – it shows how it is now, not how it should be. "Nat" should say "nat". "Nat'l" and maybe "Nat." and maybe "Natl" should say "National", but "Nat King Cole Dr" should be allowed to be named as such.

There can be an abbreviation for "Diversion" but it cannot be "Divers", period. (It can, however, be "Divers[period]".) There is a conflict.

USPS abbreviations, like CanadaPost abbreviations, are not gospel. They are not designed for driving, they are designed for mail. If we used USPS abbreviations, every road with "NE" in the name would say "Nebraska" instead of "Northeast". We need to be more careful than that instead of copying an entire list of abbreviations uncritically and without checking for possible conflicts. We cannot let that happen again.

If absolutely necessary, it could be set up as a "place in the string" sort of expansion:
Divers Lane is "Divers Lane"
whereas
Lane Divers becomes "Lane Diversion"

We decided a long time ago not to do any of this ever.

NA TTS doesn't apply just to Canada, we have to use it down here too. The Wiki isn't always right, and it was even less right the further back you go in its history.

We have been asking for TTS changes for years and only a few months ago did we get the first one (ok, the second one – slashes for pauses was the first, and an outlier, hopefully). So yes, issues that have been around for a while are getting dredged up.

I will advocate for the removal of "Nat" as "National". I don't know why you are arguing as if I am saying that it should be there. The Big List is a compilation of test results. It is NOT a list of how we WANT things to be, it is a list of how things ARE.