[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Moderator: Unholy

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby top_gun_de » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:32 am

Back in the days of Windows Mobile, audio latency was a big issue for navigation. This may well be a driver/hardware issue., not simply a platform issue.
[ img ]
AM Region Hannover, CM Deutschland (Germany), Coordinator Germany, Global Champ

Wiki Deutschland | Straßen und Orte benennen D | Karte bearbeiten | Editorbedienung
top_gun_de
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9099
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:16 pm
Location: Wunstorf, Germany
Has thanked: 3097 times
Been thanked: 6026 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby jondrush » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:15 am

No, utterly normal daily operation. And I know the junction locations becasue I've edited the ramps myself. Early for the second is still ten times better than late anything when it comes to exits. You could be looking at a 40 mile detour if you miss an exit.
Keeping the Waze maps tidy since 2009
jondrush User Page
[ img ]
jondrush
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
 
Posts: 2660
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: South Eastern Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby jondrush » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:53 pm

OK guys, I think I figured this out. I'm normally approaching the ramps at 70-80 mph. The other night I was stuck behind a truck doing 50, and sure enough the last exit call-out was too early. So it appears the Waze is not doing it's sums correctly when calculating the timing for the announcement. But for now, I think the classic guidance of first geo node at the gore point is still correct. You really, really don't want a late ramp call at 75 mph. Early is still better.

Then next step is to make Waze aware of the problem and see if they can fix the timing. To solve the second problem of the next command appearing too soon, I'd like to formally request that Waze delay the switch on ramps.
Keeping the Waze maps tidy since 2009
jondrush User Page
[ img ]
jondrush
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
 
Posts: 2660
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: South Eastern Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby PesachZ » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:05 pm

jondrush wrote:OK guys, I think I figured this out. I'm normally approaching the ramps at 70-80 mph. The other night I was stuck behind a truck doing 50, and sure enough the last exit call-out was too early. So it appears the Waze is not doing it's sums correctly when calculating the timing for the announcement. But for now, I think the classic guidance of first geo node at the gore point is still correct. You really, really don't want a late ramp call at 75 mph. Early is still better.

Then next step is to make Waze aware of the problem and see if they can fix the timing. To solve the second problem of the next command appearing too soon, I'd like to formally request that Waze delay the switch on ramps.

based on anecdotal previous testing by sketch, the speed assessment for prompt timing is not very robust. It calculates at a certain point as you approach the exit, what your speed is, and considering known or anticipated segment speeds ahead determines the appropriate times to deliver the prompts based on that. If you then change your speed after the calculations are performed, the timing does not adapt. This means if you were doing 75mph when the calculation was made, and then you slowed down, the prompt will come too early. If you speed up after the calculations, the prompt will come too late - i.e. you may miss the prompt as it may be overridden by the next prompt.

I would think asking waze to delay the switch on ramps is dangerous, as it runs the risk of no prompt being given in time when you are in a confusing interchange with successive ramps. This could easily lead users to get on the wrong highways and get delayed and very frustrated.
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 4507
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 am
Location: NY, USA (also NJ sometimes) {GC}
Has thanked: 1997 times
Been thanked: 2353 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby qwaletee » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:06 pm

As it is, if my phone is overheating or having trouble with GPS I often get late prompts. WOuld be lovely if Waze had some algorithm to determine that this has been happening and slightly advance the timing. AM I going to make a formal feature request? No.
US Champ / Country Manager | State Manager NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA, RI, VT, ME, NH | Northeast ARC | Mentor | Responding to Map Issues
qwaletee
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 am
Location: NYC Metro - Active throughout NE^2 (Northeast & New England)
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 1135 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby Fredo-p » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:39 pm

You want waze to write in code to start monitoring CPU/RAM and battery performance and use that to alter the prompts? Won't that also cause more CPU usage resulting in more battery consumption, resulting in more heat?
Fredo-p
Beta tester
Beta tester
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:35 am
Location: Everywhere
Has thanked: 269 times
Been thanked: 640 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:41 pm

Some of this may also just require editor intuition, too. I mean, if Waze doesn't consider how many lanes you may have to cross to get to an exit, the junction may need to be set back further for a highway with, say, 5 lanes than a highway with just 2, no?

Also, sometimes, we may have to cut a ramp name short so that its readout can finish in time to announce a quick subsequent turn/exit, but that's another topic, I think.
[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]
Waze Editing Manual | USA Road Types | USA Forum
Cricket (AT&T) iPhone XR / iOS (latest) / Waze (latest/beta)
PhantomSoul
Local Champ Mentor
Local Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:00 am
Location: Union, NJ USA
Has thanked: 325 times
Been thanked: 544 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby PesachZ » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:11 am

PhantomSoul wrote:Some of this may also just require editor intuition, too. I mean, if Waze doesn't consider how many lanes you may have to cross to get to an exit, the junction may need to be set back further for a highway with, say, 5 lanes than a highway with just 2, no?

Also, sometimes, we may have to cut a ramp name short so that its readout can finish in time to announce a quick subsequent turn/exit, but that's another topic, I think.

Didn't the timing auto adjust for longer names to start the prompt dinner, so they are timed to finish before the junction. This means the name length does not affect subsequent prompts really

Sent from Android using Tapatalk
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 4507
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 am
Location: NY, USA (also NJ sometimes) {GC}
Has thanked: 1997 times
Been thanked: 2353 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby subs5 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:14 pm

What happened to the listing of 170-190 for a u-turn instruction on the pie charts that show the turn and keep instructions on the TURN ANGLE section?
subs5
Country Manager
Country Manager
 
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:05 pm
Location: Virginia, USA
Has thanked: 567 times
Been thanked: 894 times

Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:09 am

PesachZ wrote:
jondrush wrote:OK guys, I think I figured this out. I'm normally approaching the ramps at 70-80 mph. The other night I was stuck behind a truck doing 50, and sure enough the last exit call-out was too early. So it appears the Waze is not doing it's sums correctly when calculating the timing for the announcement. But for now, I think the classic guidance of first geo node at the gore point is still correct. You really, really don't want a late ramp call at 75 mph. Early is still better.

Then next step is to make Waze aware of the problem and see if they can fix the timing. To solve the second problem of the next command appearing too soon, I'd like to formally request that Waze delay the switch on ramps.

based on anecdotal previous testing by sketch, the speed assessment for prompt timing is not very robust. It calculates at a certain point as you approach the exit, what your speed is, and considering known or anticipated segment speeds ahead determines the appropriate times to deliver the prompts based on that. If you then change your speed after the calculations are performed, the timing does not adapt. This means if you were doing 75mph when the calculation was made, and then you slowed down, the prompt will come too early. If you speed up after the calculations, the prompt will come too late - i.e. you may miss the prompt as it may be overridden by the next prompt.

I would think asking waze to delay the switch on ramps is dangerous, as it runs the risk of no prompt being given in time when you are in a confusing interchange with successive ramps. This could easily lead users to get on the wrong highways and get delayed and very frustrated.

The reason for the "first geometry node at the gore, and junction node a bit earlier" is that the TTS/voice prompt engine evaluates once per second, and it is reactive. Once per second, it thinks, "Are we there yet?" where "there" is the calculated distance from the next junction node at which the prompt should be given. The answer is either "Not there yet, no prompt yet..." or "Oop, we're here, better say something."

So, you have a one-second window during which you reach (and pass) the point where Waze thinks you had better be instructed. Assuming that Waze's calculations are correct and just, the way it currently works, that window starts at the instruction distance (let's call it "X") and continues for whatever distance you cover during the following second (let's call it "error"). If you have the junction node set at the theoretical gore (the "decision point"), then the distance window for that prompt is from X to X – error. In other words, the best you can do is to have the prompt exactly where Waze thinks you should have it, and the worst you can do is some 30–35 meters too late, at freeway speeds.

So, setting the junction node just a bit ahead—a few dozen meters—moves that window ahead to err on the side of too early, rather than too late, which is a safer bet. This is not to mention the time it takes for the voice to actually start talking and to finish the words "Exit right ...", and while that is presumably factored into the instruction distance X, sometimes phones do lag a bit with background processes (e.g., Spotify in the car) and such.

Hence, the standard as written in the wiki.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
assistant regional coordinator • south central region • usa
waze global champ • beta leader • tier one • new orleans
2017 chevrolet ss sedan 6mt • slipstream blue metallic
[ img ] [ img ]
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6424
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Nouvelle-Orléans, Louisiane, États-Unis
Has thanked: 2018 times
Been thanked: 2519 times

PreviousNext

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users