[Page Upate] Road Elevation

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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby dmcrandall » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:46 pm

Fredo-p wrote:I have a question about this specific section
If a transitable road goes over a river or any other kind of landmarks, or even a non transitable road (such as railroads) there is no need to change its elevation
what did you mean by this?

In the US, participating states map RRs as ground and junction them at every segment they cross as per the wiki. What do you set your RR elevation to? Do you have two segment types crossing over each other at the same elevation?


Railroad overpasses/underpasses.
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby dmcrandall » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:42 pm

CBenson wrote:But waze staff has repeatedly stated including at the NY meetup that is not true. Has waze really told anyone that a junction node that has only two segments attached is processed at all by the routing server or includes traffic delay data?


Waze has confirmed that every segment has data, not the nodes. There are whole threads in the forum about whether or not the data was saved in the segment info, or in the node info. Waze finally confirmed it was saved in each segment.

We teach new editors not to delete segments because you lose the history and data. And now you're saying that Waze is saying that isn't true? We are supposed to believe that all of this historic data is stored in each segment, but that Waze can scan and process it instantaneously when it needs to? Why do routing equations routinely fail? If it can't get a result in a few seconds, Waze will error the route. How can this happen? Waze staff told us "that there is no delay through nodes."

The talking heads can stand up there and say "there is no delay" and "excess nodes do not result in delays", oh and "excess nodes do not contribute to server overload." But the day-to-day results say otherwise. Have you tried to get a route over 200 miles lately?

How can we let a Dev say all of this, and then come up with the new info that Waze will default to a longer route with a better ETA estimate over a shorter one with a fuzzier ETA? Where does the fuzzy data come from?

Each new node created creates a delay... until data is gathered to know what the time to transition from one segment to the next is. This is a provable fact, and has been proven over and over by several different editors.

We still come back to this question:

Why are we slicing up existing historic data so that the map looks prettier?

Spain has it right. Protect the higher class road that is crucial to routing, not the 200 year old Farm to Market road that goes under it. We're not a historical society.
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby dmcrandall » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:32 am

PesachZ wrote:...Not to mention that on any high priority road, there should be enough traffic daily to collect enough data so it doesn't even use the default almost immediately (within the first day or so), the long term effect of a two segment node on a high priority road is negligible...


Come west. We'll show you major roadways with zero cell coverage for dozens of miles. It takes longer than a day or two to collect the data for the new segments.
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby dmcrandall » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:19 am

Well, I've done some navel examinations, testing and general thinking. And I've crossed over from the dark side to the light side.

Nick, I owe you a drink.
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Re: Update to Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:19 pm

Can you change the title to

[Page Upate] Road Elevation
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:22 am

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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:39 am

What also needs to be mentioned is how to break up a bridge segment. Where do you put the nodes?

IMO, I belive the bridge itself should be when the elevation actually changes. This would give a true representation of the road. Not just the abutment.

So, instead of placing the nodes to break up the road like this:


I would do it like this:


If the overpass/bridge is in between two junctions, then leave the segment as is. No need to do anything else.
Example:
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:50 am

But that part of the road is also elevated. I'm not asking that any road that goes up in elevation be mapped. I'm saying that the ones that begin to rise and fall as a part of an overpass should be mapped in its entirety. That is mapping to real world.

When I see the word ground, I see ground level.

Those types of overpasses aren't natural. They had to be constructed. Which is why I consider it a part of the elevation. Now, if it was a road, on actual ground, that went over another road that was much lower in elevation, I would keep it to the abutment. Mapping just the structure alone isn't representing the real world.
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:20 am

I beg to differ.
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Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:34 am

Before we go any further, we need to have an official word from Waze Devs.

How many nodes until routing is affected in long term routing?

I keep seeing things like

  • Don't worry it's not an issue
  • You have to be careful cause it is an issue but the number isn't known
  • It's an astronomical number so you will never achieve it
  • It is true and we have proof that routes over 200+ mi. are affected by it

We can't start chopping up roads until this answer is official put to rest by the Devs. If champs have the answers, I would like them to specifically state that they have received word from the devs AND what exactly the devs told them.
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