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This was discussed in the "seagull" page referenced in the OP, and listed as a direct quote from the devs. There it says the bridge is the part of road a seagull could fly under. Meaning only the portion with Free air below it, not the portion on raised ground.Fredo-p wrote:What also needs to be mentioned is how to break up a bridge segment. Where do you put the nodes?
IMO, I belive the bridge itself should be when the elevation actually changes. This would give a true representation of the road. Not just the abutment.
So, instead of placing the nodes to break up the road like this: I would do it like this: If the overpass/bridge is in between two junctions, then leave the segment as is. No need to do anything else.
Example:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LUAo ... xample.jpg
It is very narrow, but if you asked me if still call it an overpass, not a tunnel. The road goes up and over, the other road does not go down and under. IMHO +1Fredo-p wrote:Tunnel or bridge (+1)? That is a very narrow underpass.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mANL ... bridge.jpg
https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... s=50673140
Precisely (or maybe just maybe under a building, or series of buildings)Fredo-p wrote:So, based on the article the only way a road would ever get -1 or lower is if it actually goes underground (ie a tunnel)?
Yes there is such a number, nobody is talking because A) it is proprietary and confidential so no champ is allowed to disclose it, and B) it is a moving target that can be changed frequently as necessity dictates by the Devs responsible for keeping the system running, there staff are not comfortable releasing a number. What I can quote from staff is that "the limit is so high that it should not be possible to reach it under normal conditions. It is a sanity check/fail safe of sorts for the server to break an endless loop of other such issues. It is not the reason many routes fail". IIRC though I can't be certain they also said that it is very rare the this node limit is the cause of a route failure.dmcrandall wrote:....
Waze, along with some Champs, have acknowledged that there is a magic number of nodes, or breaks, in a segment that will result in a data overflow during a search. What is that number? Nobody is talking (maybe they don't actually know what the limit is). Dovid briefly mentioned it in a previous post on this thread.
This seems to imply that adding a nice to segment by cutting an existing segment in two is tantamount to deleting the segment and drawing two new ones. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The reason we encourage recycling Segments, and cutting 2-way segments to make two 1-way segments when dividing a road, is because even when cut, the segments still retain their historical speed data on both resulting pieces. If your freeway segment has a recoded average speed of 50mph, and you cut it, the new two pieces will both have and average speed of 50mph as well. The same holds true when you stretch or shorten a segment, the segments historical speeds are adjusted to proportionally match the new length.dmcrandall wrote:Why would we chop up the primary road types that Waze uses for longer distance navigation planning, just to make it look "pretty" or to make it conform to imagery? Every node creates one more segment with data that Waze needs to process while figuring out a route. Each node introduces a variable (time across the segment, traffic delays, etc) to the routing server. By cutting up Freeway (and MH) segments just because a lower class road goes under it, we are losing the historic data in that segment of road. Without the data, Waze can't accurately determine an ETA, and will discard a perfectly good route because of it.
Devs confirmed, in person at the meetup, that Waze will default to a longer route with a firmer ETA than a shorter one with an ETA that may vary based on traffic/signals/no historic data/etc.
What the "Seagull" approach, taken to the extreme of hacking up major road type segments, does is create a map full of new segments with no historic data. You're basically wiping the map clean, all because the major road segment happens to pass "over and under other roads that may have been at the same spot for a hundred years before the freeway was built."
That is the definition of "unneeded and pointless."
Remember these are not new segments, they are pieces of a bigger segment, therefore they already have data, and don't need to acquire new data. Only the traditions needs to be learned, but even if they are never learned, the default transition between at a node with only two segments is 0 seconds or very close to it. So even if no new data is ever acquired the old speeds gathered would effectively continue to be used.dmcrandall wrote:Come west. We'll show you major roadways with zero cell coverage for dozens of miles. It takes longer than a day or two to collect the data for the new segments.PesachZ wrote:...Not to mention that on any high priority road, there should be enough traffic daily to collect enough data so it doesn't even use the default almost immediately (within the first day or so), the long term effect of a two segment node on a high priority road is negligible...
So how do you propose to identify on the map which segments are bridges (including small bridges which go over a stream, or a road AKA overpasses). The tunnel flag explains how we can identify segments to be drawn as tunnels (the faded dashed outline segments). How do we identify to the server which segments should be drawn with the thick borders and shadows as a bridge.Fredo-p wrote:Okay, so the nodes adding time issue is solved. Now back to the implementation of elevation changes. As stated before, which I agree 100%, there is absolutely no need to go and chop up roads just because a seagull can fly under it. That explanation/theory is beyond ridiculous in my opinion and causes to many issues.
We have the tunnel option now. That means that -1 as underground (which used to be used as tunnel until Waze finally created the tunnel option) can go back to what it and the other elevations were meant to used for (segments that go over/under each other).
As it stands, since Waze has not stated anything, elevation is for the use of identifying roads that go over or under each other. It is not for identifying what roads go in the air or underground.
Re: [Page Upate] Road Elevation