Ah, that is another discussion. The road type was originally conceived to be used for alleyways in the US. For that it made sense to have another road type instead of a segment attribute. Because there was also interest from the rest of the world, it was then renamed to Narrow Road to better describe what the road type was supposed to represent (as the definition of what an alleyway is seems to differ quite a bit).

Ideally narrow roads would never function as primary streets or minor highways, but sadly we don't live in an ideal world. These kinds of roads don't really shouldn't be part of a drive over a longer distance, so I don't think it hurts to set them as a Narrow Road. But that's just my personal opinion. I don't think it's worth changing these to Narrow Road though, unless you're getting reports of issues on these roads.

By the way: in theory you could have pretty much the same effect as narrow road on a primary or minor highway road by applying the "difficult turn" penalty on each ingoing connection (and not touching the road type). It won't be as visible in the WME though.

I have to go with the sentiments above. You saw how many questions were posted in Beta by experienced editors - even though you said it was being internally tested only.

Now you've released it to production without warning to face an even greater avalanche of questions. Questions that can't be answered by experienced editors because you haven't told us anything useful in advance! Not to mention the thousands of casual editors across the world who won't come here and read these discussions.

You have repeatedly insisted you want to make Waze more welcoming to new editors. So you've introduced a new road type with no clear use-case for many markets, an unhelpful/ambiguous description and zero community support.

Do you not remember the examples of the botched Parking Project?

Please immediately withdraw alleys from the production editor. Give us a chance to work with you to determine how it's intended to be used in a way that benefits, not damages, the map. Let us prepare support for the editing community. Let us help you to introduce it to WME in a way that will enhance the map, not cause confusion and damage.

jchiarav wrote:You should be able to choose to avoid them

That's a good point. As currently explained, avoiding alleys is not a preference.

An alley segment will have a penalty for all car users, so it has no value in mapping in order to express a routing preference.

vince1612 wrote:If a light penalty of 5-10min as announced cannot be put to good use for a community, then they're free to choose not to make use of this type at all and forbid their editors from adding it, but they shouldn't request from staff to "kill" it for the rest of the world who might want it because they dislike it.

I'm sorry but I think this points to a misunderstanding of the concerns we have about the way this has been introduced.

Nobody wants to "kill" it for the rest of the world. But we simply can not forbid our editors from using it because the majority of editors will never visit the forums. They're the noobs who jump in to map editing based on what they see in the editor, do a small number of edits and then stop again. They're the ones who add every lane of a parking lot; add every footpath they can see; complicate junctions with attempts to create lane guidance. This is just another road type they will use without recognising the implications or knowing the functions. And then the experienced editors who have better things to do will instead have to clean up after them.

I'm very pleased to see, a post or two above, someone who genuinely supports and wants this new type (assuming they know how it will work). I have no doubt that this wouldn't be arriving without a genuine need for it. I also sympathise with the US community, who are saying "don't use it at all".

The problem is not the new road type. The problem is that it has been released to production in an incomplete state, with no clear explanation available from WME for editors who don't come to the forums - and no clear explanation of staff of exactly what's intended. I don't car how clear you think the explanation is - the number of questions demonstrate it's plainly not clear enough.

I'll say it again - remember the Parking Project. Released to production seriously incomplete in features. Lacking clear explanations. Client implementation missing/wrong. A massively-flawed data import conducted without proper testing. Ignoring input from the community. The result is, a year or two down the line, it's still lacking required features and, as far as I know, most people regard it as dead.

Please don't let this new road type become another Parking Project. Take it back a step or two - out of Production and into Beta. Get the community on board and involved, so we understand the goals and implementation. Get the bugs out of it and the necessary support in to it. If it's not going to be applicable in all countries then create a mechanism to restrict it's use. Then release it to Production, when the people who've tested it understand what's happening and we can support it from a base of understanding and promote it to our communities.

ApenGslowcuber wrote:narrow road is good for village and unpave road.

Not really. Proper classification of roads is good for villages, by providing higher-type alternatives if they exist.

As for unpaved roads, there is already something for them - the unpaved road checkbox!

Hi. If I have a pick up, I would not want waze to send me through these narrow streets. You should be able to choose to avoid them, like the unpaved ones. Think of the users who do not know the streets that waze sends you.
Regards.

PD: Sorry my english.

I want to add my disappointment in adding this feature to production. I can already anticipate an abundance of alley's being mapped (the US version of an alley - roads behind houses to get to the garage) Now a new editor with no knowledge of editing will just go haywire adding them just because they are there.
Please remove from production quickly before it gets out of hand.

Thanks

To throw into the mix:
If traffic from both directions is being rerouted because of penalties and the "alley" is a two-way segment that is only about one vehicle wide, then we will have vehicles coming from both directions and meeting in the middle with no where to go.

The name "alley" sounds like it is just a terminology issue that may have to worked through. I personally don't think of an alley as a normal road to drive (others apparently do). To me, it is the end of the route where the garage is located or where the trash trucks drive to pick up the trash. So for my interpretation and use, it is my opinion that they serve no purpose.
Other countries (or regions) have a different (and valid) opinion as well.

While I am disappointed that it was released to soon, my biggest issue is that countries that don't feel it is right for them should be able to get it removed from the list (and quickly). The countries that really like it can use it.

RussPA wrote:In PA, we have 125 streets retyped to Narrow Street/Passageway within the last few months from editors we don't know. Is there any way we can disable this so we don't have to keep fixing all of these?

I believe the Champs have asked but were told that it is a road type that can be used anywhere and they can't disable it for the US only.

I would like to suggest renaming it from Narrow Street/Passageway to "DO NOT USE IN US"

Gasparfox wrote:In Chile we have a similar problem, any editor (usually unknown) can freely place this type of street, and there are many ... Is it possible to restrict from a certain level of editing to add? For example only from the level 4 editor.

The US has asked the same question and was told that it could not be restricted in such a fashion. We had the name changed from Narrow Street to Passageway to deter the use of them.