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Post by flyinriz
CBenson wrote:Just so I understand correctly, you're planning to change the very page that waze personnel just changed in an attempt to clear up their policy for new editors?
HAHA! Not the wording, just the location (new page). And I also thought it wouldn't hurt to add a list of the sites that keep getting brought up in the forums as No-Nos. It was just an idea and don't worry, I wasn't going to just change it without discussing it first with a few of you. :P

-Aaron
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Post by flyinriz
dmcconachie wrote:
flyinriz wrote:
CBenson wrote:Just so I understand correctly, you're planning to change the very page that waze personnel just changed in an attempt to clear up their policy for new editors?
HAHA! Not the wording, just the location (new page). And I also thought it wouldn't hurt to add a list of the sites that keep getting brought up in the forums as No-Nos. It was just an idea and don't worry, I wasn't going to just change it without discussing it first with a few of you. :P

-Aaron
With all due respect I'm not sure a user with less than 2 months experience of waze should be editing the wiki!
I respectfully disagree. I would agree if I had <1000 edits and hadn't reached out to any of the members or read any of the information posted, but I have 15k edits under my belt (that alone means nothing and I agree they could all be bad edits), but I have also reached out to some of the other local AMs and have had them double check some of my work. I'm not going to say I haven't made any mistakes (admittedly sometimes because of lack of reading the wiki/forums), but I have learned from those mistakes. I don't want to call anyone out specifically on the forums (and I won't), but I have seen very bad/sloppy editing and I'm sure you would consider them a veteran editor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to overhaul the entire wiki or anything close. I'm also not looking to change the major points or content of any of the pages. I've started small. I've been working on the Ohio pages (relatively low traffic areas) and been extremely open to constructive criticism on such edits. There is a reason that a lot of the pages on the Wiki have "TO-DO" and "Coming Soon". Everyone is extremely busy but I have time and willingness to help, so why shouldn't I edit the wiki? I don't claim to know everything or even a lot, but I'm willing to help and I'm an extremely quick learner.

Having said that, I understand the protective nature of a lot of the "veterans" around here and I respect that. That is mainly why I said that I would reach out to some of the senior members before making ANY changes to the higher traffic areas on the Wiki. I'm not trying to step on toes here but rather aid with some of the tasks/legwork that would be better suited for a less efficient or experienced editor. My goal is the same as yours (hopefully :) ); Make Waze a better product.

Hopefully, that puts your mind at ease (at least a little), but if for some reason, it doesn't, I'm more than happy to step back on this and let someone with more time on the forums eventually get around to updating it.

-Aaron
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Post by flyinriz
dmcconachie wrote:It was solely down to the fact that after 2 months I knew very little. Even after 6 months I don't think I'd had enough experience to confidently write wiki articles!
I totally agree (but for me of course :P )! That's why I don't feel confident doing it on my own yet, but would rather discuss it first.
dmcconachie wrote:Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong. We do now have a new wiki discussion sub-forum, you could maybe keep us updated there?
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing.

Thanks for looking out for Waze. I know your intentions are good and nothing personal.
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Post by foxitrot
daknife wrote:... since they opened their maps up to any and everybody to fix and improved (something I think they learned from Waze) ...
I doubt that Waze was the teacher.
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...with the good old crashing :roll: Symbian 2.1.99.114 (on N-E52), while
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Post by foxitrot
daknife wrote:On the humorous side, maybe that is the real purpose of the IGN editors, to inject such intentional errors into the maps, they just do it so badly we make sure to fix their work as soon as we find it.
:lol:
(Yes I've meant OSM. Otherwise I fully agree.)
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Post by fvwazing
Cecil Adams wrote:some smart-aleck cartographer (and you know what a wild and crazy bunch they are)
:lol:

Yes, be conservative here. If you feel you must use g**gle or alike, use a public source to doublecheck.
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Post by gettingthere
Because it could be illegal.

Those maps are protected by copyright and license agreements that does not allow their data, images, etc. to be copied or used to derive work from. The probably is a blurb in the license agreement about requesting permission to use the data, giving credit for the data, etc. The community map editors nor Waze have been granted permission to use the data.

DO NOT copy data from those sources (Google, Mapquest) in order to edit the Waze Map.

The city data is probably OK. You need to read their license agreement to be sure. If you are unsure (some of these license agreements are hard to understand since they are written by attorneys) I suggest you send the license agreement to Waze Support and ask them if you can use the data. They can have their attorney(s) review it if necessary.

I can go into 7-Eleven and take a candy bar without paying for it. I can sample some music from another artist and make my own song. I can go into Barnes and Noble (assume that even exists any more) and take a picture of each page of a book and then 'write' my own book using stolen content. Sure it's easier than paying or creating something of your own. But again, it's illegal and unethical.

Your Waze username is being captured for every edit that you do. You can be sure that Waze has insight into exactly what you modified. Do you want to be personally liable when Google or Mapquest sues you for theft? Do you want Waze to have to delete all of the mapping data in your city, state, or country because it has been stolen?

Sorry to be a bit tough. I hope that this is clear.
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Post by gettingthere
Likely none of us are attorneys. I suggest you have an attorney review their license agreements to see if you can use the street name data. If they say yes, post a copy of their written details here so we can all benefit from their interpretation.
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Post by gettingthere
dmcconachie wrote: They bought it from services that did go out and do that legwork!
Also there was some recent articles stating the Google has been doing the following to create their own data:

* hiring planes to fly over cities to take pictures to be used for 3D imagery
* using data from their street view cars to automatically adjust road geometry on their map as well as using logic to verify correct street names from images of the street signs

So they are actually spending money and creating this stuff. Waze should not get a free pass to use this data without permission (including the community mappers that are 'working' on behalf of Waze).

We want Waze to succeed. We don't want them to be tied up in lawsuits, reputation destroyed in the press, or worse - shut down due to improper actions by us, the community mappers.
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Post by gettingthere
aaronr8684 wrote:On a semi-related note, would it be safe to assume that since we legally use Bing aerials for Waze that we could use use Bing maps for street verification or would this fall under two different usage types and licensed individually?
Seems that your question got lost in this great discussion!

Waze has not licensed anything other than the aerials from Bing Maps. And who knows exactly what there agreement is so I would stick with using the aerials integrated in Waze Map Editor vs. Bing Map directly. Maybe they are the same, maybe they are not.

As mapcat says, there are other sources for street names that very likely can be used without issue (be sure to read and understand the license agreement). Most government bodies have some type of online map source that the public can access. Some governments also generate their own aerials via airplanes flying over their area taking pictures.

For example, check out Clark County Nevada's GIS site (includes Las Vegas). Right on the intro screen it states that the date is in the public domain. Fantastic detail.

Public domain basically means that you can do whatever you want with the data for commercial or non-commercial use.

http://gisgate.co.clark.nv.us/openweb/
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