[New Page] Places/Airport

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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:18 pm

I think we have had plenty of time for anyone to stop this page, so I propose you make it public now.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 17, 2017 4:45 pm

initial proposal wrote:Place Point = IAH Car Rental Center - National / Payless / Avis / Hertz


This works well if there are only 4 or less car rental companies in that center. So in the case of more than 4, is there a reason we would not also consider creating a separate point place for each car rental company? I have seen many of the larger centers with separate return lot entrances, so you could then associate the point with the specific entrance, if different.

proposed when over 4 companies wrote:
  • IAH Car Rental Center - National
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Payless
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Avis
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Hertz
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Budget
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Firefly

In a separate discussion, we were talking about terminal names including airlines so they could be searched for larger airports with multiple terminals. We were thinking we could add the airline name as an alternate name for each associated terminal. Then we realized the Alt name list is limited to 4 (interesting coincidence).

So we could use this same logic above. Terminals with 4 or less (major) airlines could get added as alt names, but if more than 4 exists we create individual place points that can be specifically located at the gate entrances.

What do we say about setting the point for departures vs arrivals? Sometimes they are on separate levels above and below each other. If there are separate navigation roads to the separate departure/arrival entrances, do we need separate points for those at each terminal? If we didn't include the airlines, I would think we at least need something like "SFO Terminal 1 - Arrivals" and "SFO Terminal 1 - Departures".
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:45 pm

sketch wrote:I would consider naming each company with the company name first, and I'm not sure we need more than just the airport name in them. Probably "Hertz - MSY", though "Hertz - Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport" could work too.

100% agree. That is more consistent with the other place naming guidelines we have been discussing. I assume we could include the longer name as an alt name.


sketch wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:What do we say about setting the point for departures vs arrivals? Sometimes they are on separate levels above and below each other. If there are separate navigation roads to the separate departure/arrival entrances, do we need separate points for those at each terminal? If we didn't include the airlines, I would think we at least need something like "SFO Terminal 1 - Arrivals" and "SFO Terminal 1 - Departures".

I think this is sort of implied in the guidance but not explicit. I do think this is helpful, and it's how we've done it at MSY (granted, we have only one terminal!).

I forgot we already have guidance in the doc for adding additional point places for different terminals including separate arrivals and departures. I think I missed it since the examples did not propose their use. I propose we update with this new table.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 24, 2017 12:37 am

Differentiated terminal section updated.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:42 am

sketch wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:
initial proposal wrote:Place Point = IAH Car Rental Center - National / Payless / Avis / Hertz


This works well if there are only 4 or less car rental companies in that center. So in the case of more than 4, is there a reason we would not also consider creating a separate point place for each car rental company? I have seen many of the larger centers with separate return lot entrances, so you could then associate the point with the specific entrance, if different.

proposed when over 4 companies wrote:
  • IAH Car Rental Center - National
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Payless
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Avis
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Hertz
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Budget
  • IAH Car Rental Center - Firefly

In a separate discussion, we were talking about terminal names including airlines so they could be searched for larger airports with multiple terminals. We were thinking we could add the airline name as an alternate name for each associated terminal. Then we realized the Alt name list is limited to 4 (interesting coincidence).

So we could use this same logic above. Terminals with 4 or less (major) airlines could get added as alt names, but if more than 4 exists we create individual place points that can be specifically located at the gate entrances.

This. I hate hate hate the idea of having 2 separate place points for the same thing, just for the sake of Google links. Really bad usability. Using a separate place for each company is a much more sensible way to go.

I would make two alterations. First, I would still include a generic "MSY Rental Car Return" place that is linked to any Google place that might exist for the facility itself.

Second, I would consider naming each company with the company name first, and I'm not sure we need more than just the airport name in them. Probably "Hertz - MSY", though "Hertz - Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport" could work too.

As for the terminal, I think this is a fine approach as well.


kentsmith9 wrote:What do we say about setting the point for departures vs arrivals? Sometimes they are on separate levels above and below each other. If there are separate navigation roads to the separate departure/arrival entrances, do we need separate points for those at each terminal? If we didn't include the airlines, I would think we at least need something like "SFO Terminal 1 - Arrivals" and "SFO Terminal 1 - Departures".

I think this is sort of implied in the guidance but not explicit. I do think this is helpful, and it's how we've done it at MSY (granted, we have only one terminal!).

I'm working on a mock up of this section now with all the different entries.

I'm confirming that in a unified rental car facility we want to have a single entry for the "MSY Rental Car Return" and then (when more than 4 agencies) add a PP for each individual as "Hertz - MSY".

Are we placing the individual PPs at the respective rental car return entrance? That makes sense to me since that is the only destination you need for that company. If true, should the PP be labeled "Hertz car return - MSY" instead ?
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 24, 2017 5:51 pm

sketch wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:Are we placing the individual PPs at the respective rental car return entrance? That makes sense to me since that is the only destination you need for that company. If true, should the PP be labeled "Hertz car return - MSY" instead ?

I don't think so, I mean, it will depend on the configuration of the facility at any rate. Sometimes different companies have different return entrances. However, the place really represents the business itself, with phone numbers and such, and you might still navigate there even if you are not returning a car (e.g., you need to rent a van for a weekend and the airport is the only game in town/nearest to you/cheaper than the neighborhood rental spot)—even if you won't actually drive into there in your personal car, you might still navigate there and fend for yourself in the last mile (or use the Waze parking feature!). Navigating to a Hertz instead of the rental car facility or airport itself might give you a better clue as to where to walk once you here there, especially now that we can set point place stop points in WME (and double-especially once the client can display both stop point and place location).

Good points.

Therefore, the documentation should have you check if the individual facility has a separate car return from the front entrance with the counter.

  • If the same, create one PP labeled: "Hertz - MSY"
  • If separate, create two PPs labeled: "Hertz counter - MSY" and "Hertz car return - MSY"
I'm thinking "Hertz counter" would make the most sense to me, but maybe others think it should be different.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu May 25, 2017 9:31 pm

TC317, I am not sure I am following your proposal. When I read it I can see three different possibilities. Maybe you can compare with what I have here if similar.

At first I liked this "rental" term better than my own. However, when I write it out as I think we should be for consistency, the phrase is too visually similar in my mind to not get misread.

"Hertz car rental - MSY"
"Hertz car return - MSY"


May I propose we adjust to:

Split PP locations
"Hertz rental counter - MSY"
"Hertz vehicle return - MSY"

Single PP location
"Hertz rental - MSY"

I also think this is less ambiguous since in the original example "Hertz car rental - MSY" does not exclude the vehicle return if you don't notice the separate vehicle return entry.

Now with split locations we are being specific to the activity at that location and with single PP locations it is all encompassing.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:29 pm

OK. This baby got pretty complex to follow in the text, so I summarized it in a table.

Please review the table itself to ensure you agree with the different criteria.

Then, separately note your feelings about word selection and provide that feedback as well.

I know there was two camps on naming the rental counter uniquely from a single, combined location vs. the same as a single, combined location. I think we had a pretty even split on that, so we should request some more input to reach a consensus.

My proposed sections and table is in this link.
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:37 pm

Single Location: I'm good with expanding the single location names, but my preference would be to go with "IAD - Rental car facility" and as a secondary option "IAD - Rental car return." To me, seeing an entry for rental car return implies there is a location for other rental car functions like the rental car counter.

Separate Locations: I'm good with all these expanded names. I personally thought I heard a preference to have shorter names, but maybe I misread the replies.

Rental car nnnnnn: I'm good with the expanded naming as noted.

Capitalization: From my investigations in this area, these are all common nouns or adjectives of common nouns. While you can say that any "counter" is common, you cannot say that a "rental counter" is a proper noun or somehow unique. I would compare it to saying:
  • California's largest mountain is Mount Whitney.
  • The largest California mountain.
In the first entry, we capitalize "Mount" because it is part of the proper name.

In the second entry, even though we are clearly speaking of one specific mountain and everyone knows it would be Whitney, we don't capitalize the word "mountain" in that context.

For the example "Hertz rental car counter" and "Hertz rental car return" both of these places are not unique in the world. We would not say "Pick me up at the Downtown Bus Stop."

Compare these related examples. If you list a person's title, you only capitalize the portion that is part of their name, but not if you list it after their name.
  • Director Henry Platt
  • Henry Platt, director of public relations.

Having said that, if you had a placard on a desk or a sign on the street, you would capitalize "Director of Public Relations." Also, we know that any rental car return sign is likely to be capitalized, so should we match the sign visible to drivers with our displayed text like we do with everything else?
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Re: [New Page] Places/Airport

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:19 pm

sketch wrote:I am okay with "Rental Car Facility" as the primary name and "Rental Car Return" as an alt name for a single facility.

Cool.

For the wiki table, to keep it clean, I think the alt name is best addressed as a footnote reference rather than try to cram it into the individual cells. I'll update the proposal to show what I mean.

sketch wrote:Not proper nouns, right, generally anyway—I mischaracterized the issue in my post. What we're really looking at is Title Case. I don't think there is any place we don't use Title Case in place names outside of parentheticals and the occasional purely-informational appendage, e.g., "Rest Area (no toilet) - I-10 W mile 425". "Rest Area" isn't a proper noun, but we use title case for the main place name.

We do the same with parking lots... not that I necessarily agree with some applications of that, but it's what we do at this point.

Ah, yes, Title Case. This would be in line with my final counter comment for a placard on a desk or sign above the entrance of the facility. As long as we are consistent I can support that.
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