It doesn't take an act of God to make changes to our wiki, only discussion and consensus. I would support requiring at least one entry point on certain categories of area place. Not all, but some. Outdoors and natural features categories (parks, lakes) may not need them, but schools and shopping centers should get them, at least for verification purposes. This is the reason for requiring them on parking lots, as far as I can tell. Many small lots work best if navigation ends in the center, but adding and moving the point is verification that people will be routed to where they should be.

The simple way to require this on the places page is just to put a note next to each category that has been decided in the "area or point" table.

Hmm, seems like a lot of this comes down to what sort of place it is. Maybe we should let the PNH mods decide on categories and simply add general language on the page about how at least one entry point should be added to an area place that people would navigate to.

DwarfLord wrote:The Places article already says (emphasis mine):

Existing langauge wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]

This says everything we need already, does it not? But granted it's not especially clear. How about adding something like the following to the Places article, as the first subsection under Entry Point (i.e. just before "Single" and "Multiple"):

Proposed wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Implicit

Area Places without any entry point at all have an implicit entry point at the center of their area. If this implicit entry point could misroute drivers using the Area Place as a destination, add at least one explicit entry point at an appropriate terminus for routing.

Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]

I also forgot that I wrote this section when drafting the multiple entry points thing. We could strengthen it:

By default, navigation to an area place will stop on the segment closest to the center of the area. If this is not where drivers would stop when bringing people to the place, one or more [[#Entry point|entry points]] maymust be used.

How about just adding section links on "point place marker" and "center of the area" in the section DL quoted, to this section and the corresponding section on where to put point places?

Not everything flagged by PNH is backed up in the wiki. For example, PNH will mark some categories as blue or red if they don't have an address, URL or hours. Other categories are green with just a name. The guidance This is why each region has appointed one or more people as PNH moderators; they are given the authority not just to update the PNH tables but to make those calls in their regions. I see this as the same.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have an entry point on any area place that will be driven to. I'm cool with a blanket recommendation to add entry points to any area place that people would drive to. How about in this section:

Area place location details wrote:By default, navigation to an area place will stop on the segment closest to the center of the area. If this is not where drivers would stop when bringing people to the place,Add one or more [[#Entry point|entry points]] may be used to all area places, unless these places are for display only (lakes, islands, etc.).

Coupled with links in this section:

Entry point wrote:An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the [[#Location details|point place marker]] or the [[#Location details 2|center of the area place]].

OK, so how about my proposal from this morning?

I understand what "implicit entry point" means, but I think it can be confusing. A similar statement had been added about point places a while back that caused newer editors to express confusion, something like "unless a stop point has been added to a point place, the point place is the stop point." We should try to stick with the terminology given in WME as much as possible, and if an area place doesn't have an entry point, it doesn't have an entry point. Apart from that distinction, I like your modifications.

Thanks. Yes, I agree with this change. I was glad that we could get some discussion on Discord about it.

As far as I know, the wiki has never defined the exact relationship between the location of the destination (staff have used the term "end flag") and where the route stops. We tend to just pass this knowledge around informally, but it would be great to have documentation. I was thinking that a new section could be added to the routing server page.

Anyhow, unless there are further comments, I'd say we have some consensus on these changes to the places page.

Thanks DL! I changed capitalization of area place to make it consistent with the manual of style and the rest of the page

Concur. Many categories showing as an AP have a pertinent Stop Point that can occur well within the boundaries. Schools do stand out as such depending on the complexity of the PLR driveways to get to the main entrance. State Parks can do the same to get to the main office.

Enhancing the definition can help in this scenario.