Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:59 am

daknife wrote:Okay but you exclude a number of very concerned CM's and even AM's who are trying to enforce the editing guidelines in their area's. The Wiki is currently worthless in regards to landmarks. We had a very good discussion in this thread. It seemed like a general consensus was achieved here, one that involved more active editors than just the exclusive champs. And then you decide to just toss that and exclude those who haven't been able to make it to a meet-up from the discussion. One that has already been had and to my opinion an agreement or at least a baseline was achieved. One that is similar but different from the list in the CT wiki page.

Meanwhile the average editor who cares enough to try to follow the wiki is given nothing to work with in regards to landmarks. So we end up with messes like in thread I linked to a few posts ago where so much is landmarked that landmarks become worthless.


I don't see much of a consensus here at all - and no logical organization of the discussion either, it's just everyone throwing in their two cents here and there...

I never said anything about doing this at a meet-up. And I'm surprised at you thinking this thread won't be looked at by the champs for user's opinions as we craft a recommendation. As well as you ignoring me saying that once the champs come up with their recommendation, it should be released to the userbase for comments and possible revision BEFORE becoming final.

HOWEVER, several of the champs have said to just take the CT guidelines, make some tweaks (mainly the CT specific wording) let the champs comment & publish it.

Where do you see differences between the CT Guidelines & what you see as agreed upon in this thread? Please cite specific posts (click on the title) and I'll look at them.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:53 am

daknife wrote:That's an idea, but this thread (with participation of several Champs and active CM's) had already come to a general consensus as to the limited nature and scope of landmarks. Why do we need to wait for the Champs to come to a second exclusive consensus? and then get to thrash that all out again.
Mainly because people don't follow directions & with something this large in scope, and by breaking it down into smaller groups that hopefully can follow directions long enough so I can actually tally up their thoughts on it.

daknife wrote:Edited to add that the CT list is pretty good, but excludes some landmarks accepted in this thread such as significant Religious landmarks, while excluding everyday houses of worship. This is a point here in Utah where there is an LDS (Mormon) Chapel on every other block in some areas, those I've always excluded (I am LDS) as well as all other regular houses of worship, but LDS Temples are considered special destinations even here in Utah where we have 12 of them, and thus I've allowed them as well as the Hare-Krishna Temple and the one Catholic Cathedral in the State.
We had a discussion around "Major" religious sites where we decided to define it as "things like the Vatican, Kaaba, Western Wall – which CT has none... Agree, not mapped.Done, until the Vatican is moved to CT, then we may reconsider." (colors are different users). The Mormon Temples would certainly warrant a discussion, although we did specifically talk about St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC, I'm not sure where we landed on that one - we might have dropped the discussion because it's not in CT.

daknife wrote:Similarly in this thread it was mentioned and not contested (and thus accepted in my understanding) that bodies of water that are common driver navigation landmarks and are NOT found in the water layer are allowed. The river running the length of the Salt Lake Valley, the Jordan River, is not in the water layer for most of it's length so I've just authorized the editor who has been begging to add it, to do so.
That is something we're still looking into - we're currently having issues figuring out what's in the water layer and what's not. We wanted to get the basics out first (so we had something to point users towards) and would continue working on these things later...
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:00 pm

mssusa wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:... Expect to see something in the next few months.


Lool. That's the true Waze spirit.

Its going to take time for the champs to reach an agreement on a recommendation and then open that up to the general user base for further refinement. It took us a few months to come up with the CT guidelines (starting with the initial everyone puts their map/don't map/don't care votes and going through a few rounds of refinement and setting conditions). These things take time, be patient.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:20 am

daknife wrote:Time for a bump, based on this question https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33447&p=333311#p305597 in the newcommers sub-forum. It seems to me we've reached a consensus as to the limited scope of landmarks that should be emplaced. Can one of you wonderful Wiki-masters work on getting the Wiki to echo the limited list of acceptable Landmark/POI's to be placed. The question that prompted this post was about Malaysia so it wouldn't be a total answer but if we can point to a limited list in the US perhaps it can help establish a standard for limited lists elsewhere as well.

We setup Connecticut Landmark Guidelines (see link in my signature to CT Wiki) & a few of the champs have suggested we use it as a base to start a champs discussion to come up with a nationwide standard and then bring that to the rest of the user base for comments. Expect to see something in the next few months.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:00 pm

Den_in_USA wrote:
bigbear3764 wrote:Editor issue. Somewhere there is a road or landmark with an improper city name. If you have the highlight script, it makes it easy to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is an "S" displayed by itself next to a street named "S Chaparrel Ct". I cannot edit that area because it is outside of my driving range. How do I report a map problem in this area? Or can I be upgraded to edit within 10 miles of where I drive?


Post your request in the Board index ‹ Map ‹ Editing ‹ Unlock request forum. Make sure you read the post stuck to the top of the forum entitled "READ FIRST! Request instruction SUMMARY & Level 6 Requests"... Please be clear that you are requesting an update because it's outside your area...
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:41 pm

Den_in_USA wrote:Would it be a problem if I created a parking lot road and called it a dirt road so that it appears different on the map?
Yes it would. Parking Lot Roads have special properties.
1) The suppress automatic traffic jam reports
2) They carry a heavy routing penalty to prevent routing through a parking lot (into or out of is fine)
3) They help suppress automatically generated map problems (missing road)
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:53 pm

Unholy wrote:2. In the NA server, adding a gas station landmark will not add a "pin" to the client's map - Currently the gas stations which appear there originated from a 3rd party data base.
3. If you wish to prevent "ghost traffic" jams and prevent Waze from navigating you through gas station road, please set the type of road in these gas stations to "parking lot" roads.


Playing devil's advocate here...

Why not use the Gas Station Landmark instead of parking lot roads for gas stations?
1) Both suppress the "ghost traffic jam".
2) You'll get a nice little highlight around the gas station.
3) A lot of gas stations have odd paths through them (in & out & around the pumps), wouldn't it easier just to drop a blob of a landmark over the whole area?

Does any of this create issues with the 3rd party pins?
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Unholy wrote:2. In the NA server, adding a gas station landmark will not add a "pin" to the client's map - Currently the gas stations which appear there originated from a 3rd party data base.
Is there a way to add stations to that 3rd Party Database? I've gotten numerous URs about gas stations not appearing in that list.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:46 am

ncc1701v wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:
    1.10 Bridge - Bridges can have names other than the name of the road, so maybe, leaning towards yes for major ones - certainly not every bridge. (i.e. George Washington Bridge in NYC - yes, Golden Gate Bridge in CA - yes, the bridge that takes Main St over the Railroad Tracks - no)
    1.11 Tunnel - Tunnels can have names other than the name of the road, so maybe, leaning towards yes for major ones - certainly not every tunnel.

Would these show up when navigating? I enjoy being a tourist and learning I'm going over the Koscziusko bridge, or the Pulaski bridge, but most of the time wouldn't most navigators just want clear directions to their destination? Do these help with navigation? Would they be seen as clutter?
See Screen Shot Above...
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:26 pm

mapcat wrote:I agree with most of what you've included. AFAIK the inaccessible water layer exists only in the USA, so anywhere else (including Canada) water features do need to be mapped. Some features are missing in the USA also, so there's nothing wrong with adding some more where useful.
That's why I labeled it "USA" and not "NA"... There will always be exceptions to the rules, and this would be a great place to put - "before you map it, make sure it isn't already in the app as many waterways already are"

mapcat wrote:Regarding parks, what do you mean by "as long as it's not too big where it interferes with other landmarks/roads"? Every park will have some roads in it. National Parks absolutely should be mapped, regardless of size. They're destinations.
I was refering to this series of posts (starting at the bottom of page 1 in this topic)
shawndoc wrote:I have a question. How should national forest land be covered? Currently, its one GIGANTIC landmark in the client. The problem I'm running into, is there are numerous cities within this gigantic landmark. And its impossible for me to select any existing landmarks, as any time I try to click on one, the National Forest landmark is selected instead. Do we really need landmarks that cover hundreds of square miles of mountain land, including all forest, roads, etc?
daknife wrote:I'd say National Forest should NOT be landmarked, A National Park or Monument yes but not a forest. Besides how are they accounting for private land mixed in with the National Forest? Well based on your complaint about towns inside the "landmark" not at all, but that is an issue. I vote to delete such a landmark.


mapcat wrote:Parking lot landmarks suppress traffic, and possibly gas stations, but I don't think any others do.
Gas Stations do suppress traffic from what I've seen... and both suppress problem reports (but for parking lots, would parking lot roads be a better option...

mapcat wrote:Some of the others you say should be mapped (police station, clinic) may be so small that they will never show up, so it may not matter whether or not they're mapped.
Good idea for the general rules section... Minimum size visible...

mapcat wrote:I don't think bridges (or tunnels) should be mapped as landmarks. Instead, the street name should be switched from the highway number to the name of the bridge.
I really want to see how shields are handled before deciding on this one... I did a few test ones here in CT, and it seems to work - you get one name for the bridge, it's smaller than the road name font (see screenshot below)...

But like my first line says, those were just my opinions/ideas...
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