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Route Resets at I-210 E/CA-134 E merge in Pasadena, CA

Post by DudleySirius
I frequently drive I-210 Eastbound through Pasadena. Each time I drive through, regardless of whether I approach on I-210 or on CA-134, my route resets in the vicinity of the merge.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... ts=4462760

I am using an Android platform (Moto Photon4G) It is difficult to diagnose at 65mph, so I am not certain exactly what happens, but each time I get the alert beep, (as if I went off-route) and Waze recalculates the route. It does the same thing a mile or two down I-210, somewhere prior to Hill Ave:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=61815164

I have carefully examined the route in the map editor, but I can't see any reason. There are several on-ramps and off-ramps in the section, including the HOV only on-ramp from Fair Oaks. I can't find any which don't have all connections allowed, and all of the segments are one-way in the correct (Eastbound) direction. I do not have this issue anywhere else I drive.

I would like to know 1) does this happen to everyone driving this route? 2) Is it a map error, software error, or by design?

Respectfully, Dudley Sirius
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Post by Daknife
I can't see a reason for this. Make a UR next time it happens, so you can look at the tracks Waze records. Perhaps for some reason in that area your GPS is getting fuzzed enough that Waze is plotting you on neighboring streets for a while, then bounces you back to the correct road.

I did tweak that HOV on-ramp a bit to move it a bit further from the main route until just before the merge. I doubt that will do it but maybe.
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Post by DudleySirius
I did a UR this afternoon. I got an email saying "Need more info to solve the map issue you reported on Waze" I haven't figured out how to call up the UR, since it isn't in the Map Editor anymore.

I looked up both of my trips today through this segment (both from 134E, once in HOV lane, once in the #1 lane.) I couldn't see anything unusual. But, I can't figure out how to pull up the planned route, only my actual GPS track. The tracks are tight enough to tell which one was in the HOV lane.

I don't think it is the GPS. I get exactly the same event in exactly the same place whether I drive on the 134 East (never under anything significant for more than a second) or I drive on the 210 East (through 2 tunnels several hundred yards long, frequently with traffic.) Also, I get the exact same event every time I transit the segment, and I never get it anywhere else, (unless I really do deviate from routing.) My biggest complaint is usually how LONG it takes for Waze to figure out I've left the route. I frequently drive the 2 South to the 5 to the 110 to the 105, plenty of opportunity for similar events, but I never get the gratuitous double recalculation.

I appreciate the attention. I will try to drive the route sometime when I am not in a hurry, so I can enter a more clear UR. It's more of a nuisance than anything serious, but it makes me wonder what causes it.

Regards, Dudley Sirius
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Post by DudleySirius
Hi Wazers,

I was the original poster. I have tried moving the 210E main lane north slightly to see if it would solve the issue, but no change. I continue to see the reset, regardless of whether I am in the HOV or regular lanes. I have pored over the map trying to figure out why. The only thing I found was that the HOV onramp from Fair Oaks was labled as a parking lot road. I changed it to a ramp. I will see if it still resets.

I have been watching carefully for exactly WHEN the reset starts (note that the beep doesn't occur immediately.) It appears to be significantly (several hundred meters) west of the location plotted on the map editor by the error reports. It may have to do with the change in freeway name from 134 East to 210 East?

I would be interested in having one of the Waze programmers explain what exactly are the criteria for initiating a route re-calculation. I get the feeling there is some interaction between the program and the map data which results in an unnecessary and undesired recalc.

Anyone else driving the segment is encouraged to submit a map error report. The more routes we can compare, the more likely we can determine the source of the issue.

Cheers, Dudley Sirius
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Post by DudleySirius
Okay,
So I did some more research and found out why the HOV onramp was a Parking Lot Road (so Waze will not give users that route, but will not consider it an error if they use it.) So, I changed it back. I also moved it farther North (away from the main lanes, in order to reduce the chance that Waze will 'snap' users to it.

More importantly, I noted that the segment between the Fair Oaks HOV onramp and the Marengo Ave onramp had different direction properties than the rest of the 210 segments. Specifically, the native direction of that segment was East to West. According to the documentation, this shouldn't make a difference, since it had its direction set to "One way (<--)" and the other segments had direction "One way (-->)." But, my computer engineering and programming background tells me that this is much more likely to be the cause of the issue than anything else I have noted, so I disconnected the segment and turned it around so that it's native direction matches the segments on either side of it. I checked the directions and connections to make sure everything matched, before I saved it.

I will post after the next time I drive the route.

Cheers, Dudley Sirius.
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Post by dukeofmildew
I live very close to here. I can't explain the issues coming from the 134 (Glendale direction) but if I'm traveling up the freeway stub (from Del Mar Blvd) to the 134 W, I always lose GPS signal when I'm passing under the 134. Waze ends up positioning me on any random street in the area: Colorado, Orange Grove, etc. Only after I've been on the freeway for a bit (perhaps a mile, like in your case) does it figure out I'm on the freeway.

From the 210 (La Canada Flintridge) you do pass through a tunnel, which would almost definitely mess with your positioning. I'm guessing it thinks you're on Walnut or Corson or something. As I said, I can't really explain your issues coming from the 134 though. But since I live here I pretty much never drive the 134E-to-210E transition.
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Post by HandofMadness
In areas with large concrete structures, such as where freeways merge, its normal for the GPS to get confused, either from loss of signal, or due to GPS signals bouncing off of the buildings. That could cause Waze to temporarily think you've left the freeway or are on a different section than you are actually on. Not saying that is what is happening, but its a possibility. There's an area on the 105, where there's a big transit station tower along the freeway, and if I'm in the carpool lane or the lane next to it, my phone will show I'm on the city streets for a short time until I clear the tower. And I'm not the only one, I see UR's there frequently.
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Post by HandofMadness
Kandralla wrote:Has anyone checked to see if there are two identical segments stacked on top of each other there? I've seen a lot of those recently and if for some reason Waze snapped you to one that isn't connect on the other end I imagine it would trigger a reroute.
I just went through the sections in the above Permalinks, plus a little more in either direction, I'm not seeing any stacked roads. A couple of the ramps are level 6 locked, which is going to be a major pain when Cartouche gets retired.

My best guess looking at it, is that Waze snaps you from the main road to the HOV on-ramp or the Fair Oaks Ave on-ramp there. I think HOV is most likely, since it runs parallel to the road for a bit there. With the I5 toll lanes in OC, where there's actually quite a bit of separation between the regular lanes and the toll lanes (both in real life and drawn in), its common to get UR's from Waze snapping people in the carpool to the regular lanes or vice versa. Same with the 105 carpool lanes before they were all deleted (and the drawn back, and then deleted again).
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Post by HandofMadness
Try submitting a few URs as it happens and add a note to not delete. Out best bet of figuring out what is going on is to see what, if any, route information Waze provides. Hopefully it will show where it thinks you are that causes a recalc. It may take a few tries before Waze provides the needed info.
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Post by HandofMadness
Yours is there too. Both show Waze has you route being on the 210, and both show a GPS track in the carpool lane. No reason for the client to be snapping you to a side street.
210134.jpg
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What's the next step? Delete and redraw?
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